We are, of course, amazed that our readers occasionally disagree with our brilliant and witty essays. In fact, sometimes quite a few readers think that The Outrage editors are wrong, misanthropic, idiotic, selfish, deluded, or all of the above.

Mother Outrage always told us that even the dull and the ignorant should have their say, so we've allowed space below for those dissenting opinions (and for shameless flattery).

Never have I witnessed such garbage from such ignorant idiots. The INDIANS owned everything, you fools. The whites took it from them, destroyed their civilization, religion, tried to supress their language, everything! I hope they take every last nickle from you greedy gambling idiots. They deserve it!! Have a nice day, idiots.

OH my god, my ancestors were murdered and knocked out of power in germany about a thousand years ago, SOMEONE owes me money!!!!

OH my god, my ancestors were murdered and knocked out of power in germany about a thousand years ago, SOMEONE owes me money!!!!

make it wrong for the rights we commited

legal contracts should not force the gov. to attribute any finacial aid to native tribes and organizations in attempt to prezerve their culture. human dignity should. (a quality which past and present administrations lack) it is unfortunate that this is even an issue.

I think that before anyone auquires the motivation to speak for any cause, whether it is out of intrest in the subject or just outrage, one should do atleast enough reading on the subject to perpose a moderate argument. If you are prepaired to argue, you should also be prepaired to lose. Cause if you guys out there havent noticed, NO ONE is ever going to be right, one group just lucks out and the other is left to lic his wounds.

paper

After stealing our land,and murdering over 90% of our race you have the HUBRIS to bitch!!!

The war, children, is NOT over yet. Haven't you noticed? It's most noticeable expression was physical--the violent bloodshed that went both ways in the early years. The removal of people from Earth, the breakup and forced aculturization of the families. But remember the FOUNDATIONS of early Native American culture (which are still thriving in some today). When the whites came into North America, the spiritual purpose of the racial exchange was supposed to be the gaining of spiritual understanding on the part of the whites and the gaining of authority on the part of the natives. The exchange is happening still, and has not YET come to resolution. The whites do not seek the true knowledge of the natives, and, sadly, yes, many of the natives have learned to misuse the authority they have gained. Whites should be studying the spiritual heritage of the natives, as they are the keepers of true knowledge in thei area, and natives should be using their authority to TEACH. The "battles" continue, but they are in our hearts now. Listen to your hearts!!

Onawa XO

have you people lost your minds??? youre talking about indians right? the people that we permanently screwed for generations by destroying their way of life? those people? this place is an outhouse

THE SO CALLED PEQUOTSE NOT EVEN INDIANS BUT MOSTLY BLACKS PLAYING INDIAN . LOOK AT THEIR PICTURES, IF THEY ARE INDIANS I AM THE POPE. BUT AS LONG AS THEY GREASE THE PALMS OF LIEBERMAN AND DODD THEYbecome INDIANS. GET A COPY OF THE FOXWOOD PEQUOTS AND YOU TELL ME THEY ARE INDIANS. MOST PEQUOTS THAT SURVIED THE PEQUOT WAR WERE ABSORBED INTO ENGLISH FAMILIES LONG BEFORE ELLIS ISLAND WAS OPEN. I AM PART CONN INDIAN HAVE BEEN WITH THE NATIONAL CONGRESS OF AMERICAN INDIANS SINCE 1960 AND NOT TO SOME PHONIES PL;AYING INDIAN. I BELIEVE THE CASINOS SHOULD PAY SOME TAXES AND WITH GREEDY ELLIS ISLAND TYPES GO BACK TO EUROPE WHERE YOU GOT KICKED OUT OF IN MOST CASES. SAGAMORE

I'm Irish.Igrew up hearing stories of the black and tans and the family stories of who we were before the English came.I spoke Irish and my Dad was into traditional music.My language identified me as Irish and not English and as the old song says, thank God were surrounded be water.The Indian on his reservation is surrounded by the white world and why shouldnt he keep his language and identity seperate.The world would be a very boring place if we were all Americans.I can understand the importance of not being assimillated and I do thinkthe Federal government should keep its agreements.I believe that the descendents of the Europeans who came to America with the attitude that they had a God given right to the land already occupied by the first Americans, should make reperation to the children of that terrible outrage.Until when?Until those Indians are living healthy happy fulfilled first class Indian lives and not second class white mans lives.I want to be Irish and recognized as Irish with allthose treasures my ancestors passed on to me and all that music and all those stories and that lilting language the English nearly killed off.Its my inheritance and no one should tell me to join any melting pot.Why should it be any diffirent for all those diverse American Indian people.I love my Indian relatives and I can identify with their struggle.The American way surely allows for the recovery of the people who lost so much.A little compassion please and less crying over tax.No one wonders about the tax going into arms and politicians private planes and limos.If america were invaded by a race from another planet who believed themselves superior and had very advanced technology and began moving people out of their homes and off of their farms and sending them to live inplaces they didnt want to go to wouldnt Americans fight back and feel outraged?Now you have it.Yes in ancient times there were movements of people but they usually just moved in with the people already there they didnt do what the English invaders did or the Romans for that matter.I think the English learned their warring trade from their masters the Romans.Look again and look with the compassion that Jesus had.

now if you guys where native amercanyou wouldn't be saying (talking all this stuff . that's not right at all. Because as a young native american i'am perade to say that are you guy's puttung down my culture ,just made me REALLY mad !!!!!!!!!!! now as ahint i wouldn't be puttting your e-mail address up at all because you WHITE PEOPLE are ticking off all of us . thanks allof you native americcan s fo rsaying what you did . THANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Don't hate the Indians for doing what Americans do best. Only by their grace did the whites survive here in early colonial days. Europeans would have written North America off if the (peasefull tribes) had not aided them. If the Europeans had been met at the shore by modern lawyers, North America would still be aboriginal. Blame yourself for allowing your politicians and your children to lack moral fiber and personal responsibility. Current White America owes the first Americans. Why don't you write about the governments subsities to Blacks or Jews and to keep your hate machine churning. As for me and my tribal friends, we think that articles like this one, are spurned from ignorance. If you want to write articles concerning Government subsities to the undeserving write about Exxon and Dupont, not the victums of a crime. reelect no-one!!

i think the indians have been the most mistreated people in this country. this was their land not ours. we took it and killed their people and forced them into signing treaties. treaties that arent worh a buffalo nickel today. how do you expect people to feel when you kill them lie to them and steal their land and force them into a differnet way of life. i am all for them having their so called special rights to have gambling if they want to. how would feel if the indians won the so called war which was not a war. the indians never had a chance because they were outnumbered and we were unmerciful to them and their women and children. when i was a child watching westerns i always thought indians were the bad ones and i have grown up and see it was just the opposite. as for the government there is one thing to remember and that is if the government gets involved with anything they will screw it up (it never fails). so be very careful about criticizing someone unless you have walked in their shoes or (moccasins).

The American Indians are still getting screwed every which way, so i say to them "Take everything you can and more, it is rightfully yours." Let the pale faces pay up.

LOL! I need to get off my ass and figure out how to get government money to start my own subsidized business.

I don't think our government has the right to give out money to anyone except to pay their expenses of operation and for defense spending. It is not right that the government take 40 cents to every dollar earned from a poor person to give to a stinky native american or to a foreign government, welfare or "charity" should be left to the church or any other private organization not a government, its time for us oppressed by our own government individuals to rise up and take back our country before its to late

What has always amazed me is how I can be called "greedy" for not wanting to hand money to some group who believes I "owe" them something. I get up every day and go to work. The government takes half my income in tax. I get no handouts. In fact, I'm paying the most of any American tax bracket. I'm tired of the guilt trip on how the white man lied and broke treaties. I wasn't there, okay? I have no problem with Indian people wanting to hang on to their heritage, but I don't wish to fund it. Jewish people came to this country and by percentage did quite well, through education and hard work. Asian people came to this country and did quite well, through education and hard work. Irish, English, Dutch... the list goes on. The point is: become a member of society. Become an American. Earn money, pay taxes, teach your children to survive on their own. Break the chain of welfare by improving yourself. Fixing your situation is not my responsibility. I'm responsible for my family and myself. Anything above that is charity. I'm surviving by hard work. I suggest you do the same.

Funny how both sides of an issue can be wrong. If the Indians (or, native Americans, I'm sorry) are making money, tax free I might add, from casinos and getting paid by the federal government, why are they so damn poor? I've seen the living conditions in the reservations, they seem more like some third world country than any place in the US, where is all this money going to? I always thought the indians were a communal race, have they given up their communal stance and accepted the American way of a couple rich folks and thousands of poor? And really, who gives a damn about what happened in the past, remember the past and learn from it, but for chrissake lets not have all you kiddies out there slinging insults or carrying grudges because your great grandpa killed/cheated my great grandpa. I guess I'm outraged at the uninformed, slanderous reactions everyone has to this whole affair. *sigh* -Bojon

One comment was that the Indians are becoming Americanized.They sure are! Only a few of the members of any tribe are getting rich off gambling. Many still live in poverty and the young ones ar starting to crumble into a world of drugs and gangs. If something isn't done soon we'll have another mess on our hands like we do in the inner cities!

Why should we be surprised? The Indians learned it all from watching us. Now they know how to use power to make money. The ones who have the power will make the money, while the poor...of course, will stay poor. It may have taken them a while to get a foothold in the good ole money machine called the US, but they've finally figured out how to do it. Quit yelping about the Indians and all. They are becoming Americanized. We should be proud. Our next step will be to find out we can make money off of the Indian's making money. Truth, justice, and the American way, right?

Just wanted to tell everyone who reads this to do their patriotic duty and donate to the DO. The Outrage crew has very nicely asked for our support and by GOD in my opinion they deserve it. Don't you think they have come out and stood up for our views enough times that we owe them a couple or even twenty (dollars). You decide, I did. Check is in the mail (sounds good, doesn't it.) And if the message wasn't clear up till now, THANK YOU DO! You ensure that not all of us sit on our ass all day turning into mindless piles of ___, i mean mush. We get Outraged!!! Keep it up, and remember No apologies!

P.S. I would like to thank Mr. Groom for his response. Nice to know some (big) people really care.

While it is true that some tribes are doing quite well with the casinos on their land you must also look at the average income at places such as the Pine Ridge Reservation.

The Casinos are finally doing what the Federal Government has promised to do for 150 years,providing for the people of the reservations a living standard that only begins to approach the norm in this country.

The truly amusing part is that it is the greed and avarice of the white man that drove the indian to the reservation system and that same greed and avarice is now paying off.

The Federal Dollars are still needed by thousands of incredibly poor Indians on some of the reservations which are stuck in such poor and remote lands that even gambling will not help.

Please don't throw out the baby with the bath water,look into the matter a little before you cause people to jump to conclusions that are just plain wrong

Thank You
Frank Roberts
(Two Owls)

After reading this garbage (at least most of it is) I was sickened by the mental and verbal ignorance of so many of you people. I know that my ancestors did not say to your ancestors "please come over here and steal our land that the Great Spirit gave us to watch over, and while you're at it put our children in christian schools and forbid them to speak their language, cut their hair and make them wear your types of clothing. People like you here sicken me to no end its that type of thinking that has made this world a terrible place to live in. This attitude has no place in thid world that was given us by the CREATOR. If you have so much problem with this why don't you go back to wherever your Ancestors came from. I am where my ancestors came from. My people never got onto boats and decided to steal others land and well being, YOURS DID THIS. Out of all treaties that you people made with mine not ONE I repeat NOT ONE was ever kept. So if you want to talk about lying and cheating then talk about yourselves an your ancestors because they were the biggest liars in history. I leave you with this thought. What will happen to this Mother Earth when you have taken all the you people can take from her??? I hope that she revolts and wipes all of the people like this out and gives the land back to those it belongs to weither black , white, red, or yellow it doesnt matter but, you can bet that there will be more red people than there will be white......

YOU GUYS RAN OUT OF IDEAS, RIGHT?

We gave the Indians land "forever" - we just forgot to define what "forever" meant. Apparently it means until the land better suits our self-interest. If Outrage doesn't want to pay the terms of the contract, give them their land back.

As far as fraud, how many nations have we negotiate peace with, given them flags to wave when soldiers are near - and then massacre them anyway? Apparently the American flags we gave them faded...

I work at one of those Indian Casinos. Here are some things you probably don't know.

Iin the area I am in, if I could find another job that paid as well as this, I would take it in a heart beat. If you are white, you are passed over for promotion in favor of an indian. Not because he or she may be more qualified, but merely because they are indian, this is called "Native Preferenece." This also applies to hiring practices. If you are a dealer with 25 years experience in casino gaming and operations, and white, you will be hired after a native with 3 weeks experience. Now if this practice were reversed, then it would be a racially motivated action, because you would not be fulfilling your quota of non-white to white workers, but it is ok for the indians to discriminate because of race. Also, if an indian does not show up for work, because of whatever reason, without calling in, they are maybe written up, if a white does not show up with out calling in, they are terminated on the spot. There is Also a "tribal license fee" that must be paid yearly, as well as the state gaming license fee the dealers must pay. This tribal fee really amounts to no more than buying your job. If you move from one tribal casino to another, even if it were across the street, you have to pay the fee again, with no reimbursement from the previous tribe. There is also a deal for the indians, that allows them to get time off for school and get paid, provided that the course work is applicable to the casino operations, i.e. a business degree, accounting, something that the tribe (casino) can use once the degree is obtained. Not if your white. I could go on, but these are just a few of the things that go in this casino system. I just wanted to share this with you, I am happy to have a job, and yes I am working for the tribe, but like I said earlier, if I can find a job that pays as well as this, (not because the casino pays great, but because tips are good here), I would leave the casino in a minute.

For all of the "whitewashed" people out there who probably learned everything about Amrican Indians from tv, Wake up! My people are have been put all over this country forced to live on reservations set aside for them. So if its there land who the hell cares what we do?

Secondly reservations have very high poverty and unemployment. If we are all "Americans" why can't we recieve the right amount of aid that we should have coming to us.

Finally the choice to still live on reservations is a personal choice. We are greatful for what we have been delt. We unlike you don't throw something out just because it can no longer serve us any purpose. The Earth is not something we can just throw away.

While it is certainly an oversimplification to talk about occaisional fraud, it is an even worse oversimplification to insinuate that all the indian tribes were peacefully coexisting before the white man came along. The Nez Pearce were forced off their land by other indians before Lewis and Clark explored the interior. In fact, the Lipans (and other Apaches), Comanches, Waco, Cherokees, and Caddos routinely warred on each other. Entire tribes and societies were wiped out at will and without remorse long before Cabeza de Vaca stumbled across Texas in the mid-1500's. To say any of the land is "their land" is patently absurd: they stole it long ago from some poor little tribe that never made it.

Don't forget either that various bands of Indians frequently signed treaties in bad faith and then broke them at the most opportune moment. Some tribes even "made a living" off of robbing and attacking settlers and then trading the property of their victims (Wacos in particular).

The bottom line is that it isn't so black and white (or even red and white). The subject of the outrage is whether these quasi-independent nations should be able to make money hand over fist running casinos *and* be on the Federal dole at the same time. For that matter, should they still be on the Federal dole? And if these are reparations, how long should they continue?

I never killed an indian and wasn't involved in any organized effort to eradicate any tribes...that was over 80 before I was born...I am innocent, so why should I pay reparations through my taxes?

Why Indians continue to live on reservations is beyond my understanding. Face it; their Indian way of life is gone. Long gone. There are no buffalo to hunt and none of them live in teepees. They drive pickups and have TV sets. It's time to do away with the reservations and have the Indian population assimilate into the rest of the American melting pot.

You said - oversimplification. You couldn't be more right about that. There was no war to determine who got the control of the land, there was a series of attacks by government forces followed by peace treaties and a pattern of the US government violating the treaties. Thenative Americans didn't make up the terms of the treaties, they continued to agree in order not to be killed, or have their children slaughtered. When told that it was acting ultra vires, the government response was exemplefied by Andrew Jackson's apocryphal statement, "Let John Marshall take his army and enforce what the Supreme Court decreed."

You said - occasional fraud. It is truly surprising that after Custer's fatal arrogance, the nation did not send its armies to kill anyone who might have been a native American. After all, it wasn't like they were people, those injuns. And what about those millions of acres of land, that was quite a coup for the red man, wasn't it? Do you want to trade with the tribes? Of course they agreed to being marched at gun point acoss the continent. It was right after the "war" where in the Cherokees living in the area now called the Carolinas and Georgia enticed the Federal Government to invade the land they had been told would not be invaded. Those sly native Americans were trying to trick the government into giving them millions of other acres, acres made of stone and sand, not land like that terrible lush land their ancestors had lived on, and they had been raised on. No, those injuns were looking for adventure and they duped the government into providing it.

You don't think the discovery of gold had anything to do with it do you. And you don't think that the discovery of other precious metals and minerals had anything to do with the recurrences of slaughter, movement of tribes, and reduction of lands. The native Americans should have known better than to allow themselves to be settled like that on land that they obviously knew contained future interests of the new rulers. They knew it would make those silly government leaders look silly for giving away valuable land. Everyone knows that's the real reason they wanted to stay in the lavish new homes they had been given by the generous white man.

Everything was taken from the residents of this land. They were moved to portions of the country that the conquerors thought useless because there was no way to get anything valuable out of the land at the time. It wouldn't grow crops. It wouldn't supportg ame adequate to feed the people. If the people left the reservation, they would be killed. They had no rights. But they were allowed to self-govern. Boy, don't you wish you get a deal like that offered to you? No food. No tools. No skills. No homes or materials from which to build. The government gave them blankets and booze. Don't you wish you get the same deal? So now, when the native Americans call the government on the charade of sovereignty, the government is caught with its credibility down. Could it continue to make war on the native Americans? Oops. Those folks are citizens. Other citizens may object. Killing folks doesn't settle well with dinner during the evening news. After the middle of the twentieth century, suddenly government massacres of native Americans went out of vogue.

Please re-read what you wrote. Ask if you would accept the treatment of the government as fitting. Ask if your article passes the smell test. Ask if it passes the Golden Rule test. The only way it can pass is if native Americans are not, and never have been, humans. If your article passes the tests, you might want to examine your claim to being human.

"Occasional fraud and thievery?" You've been using Rush's research team again haven't you?

You seem to object mostly to the "double dipping" that is going on; gambling AND subsidies; independent nations AND federal aid recipients. This type of milking of the federal government is, unfortunately, a common occurence, and it seems that some tribes have learned the ways of Washington well.

However, the amounts of money involved are not as lucrative to the tribes as it may seem at first glance. I have lived on a reservation (Akwesasne or St Regis) and the living conditions there, and on several other reservations I have visited, were terrible.

Measurable conditions such as poverty, unemployment, suicide rate, alcoholism, living standards, educational opportunities were and are worse than off reservation. Subjective conditions such as hope for the future, anticipation of change for the better or even the expectation of fair treatment by the federal and state governments are in most cases just as dismal.

Gambling income is in many cases the only income available to a tribe to lift its members out of dire poverty. In Akwesasne the availability from Bingo provides jobs for members of the tribe as well as income that can benefit the tribe as a whole. Without this income locals still might be getting their drinking water from wells a few blocks from their homes as I did 30 years ago.

Nobody is forcing people to gamble. If the tribes offer the public a service that is wanted and manage to turn a profit at the same time, then more power to them!

The thing to be outraged about is not what the tribes are doing but how, even today, they are being cheated, hoodwinked and taken advantage of by management companies owned by off reservation individuals that run the gambling on the various reservations.

I agree with you that we should not be giving so many subsidies to the tribes, but I just want to make a comment on the gambling issue. I live in Minnesota, and in this state it is legal for Indian's to run casino's but it is illegal for anyone else to run casino's. Just last year a group of Asian's got arrested for selling scratch off lottery tickets in southwestern Minnesota. They were given long sentences. The reason the state officials gave for arresting them "they were worried it would lead to violent crime". Yet the state government sells lottery tickets themselves. The legislature is always attacking the Indian casino's, and arresting anyone who is not indian and running a gambling establishment, yet they do it themselves. Tell me what the difference is between private individuals selling them and the state selling them? The state is trying to establish a monopoly for themselves. Don't attack Indian casino's attack the state run lottery. Let the Indian's keep their casino's, and legalize gambling for individuals who are not Indian.

RE: Indians/casinos,etc.

Good for them!!! At last they found a way to beat the white man at his own game-greed!!

Let them build all the casinos they want-no one forces anyone to go in! There are quite a few in our area and I can honestly say I've never been in a single one. Gambling doesn't interest me.

Well, who do you suppose was here when the Indians came here over the land bridge that was there from Alaska to Russia? They have found the remains of Caucasians in more than one place in North America dating back before any "native Americans" were here, one such place being Washington State. Unfortunatly, we have no record of how the land was wrested from these Caucasians but do you suppose it was taken by force? If so,it was a pretty good job done on them because for many centuries after there was no trace whatsoever, just Indians. We need to remember that these "peaceful" people were warring amongst themselves, the various Indian nations, killings each other and doing all the things that warring nations do to each other.

Your outrage about American Indians, the benefits entitled, and their tax free income is amusing. The average taxpayer pays out more money supporting welfare and criminals than they do in supporting the American Indians. So what’s the big deal?

One more question of thought you missed though, have you ever wondered why our good honest, trustworthy, politicians allow tax free money benefits to one group and not another. Gee, I wonder what could be hidden in the background in benefits.

Why permit taxpayers dollars to be spent on tax free gambling casino’s supporting one group, yet not also allow welfare and criminal recipients to build the same.

You see, there is money involved. The root of all evil. The politician who runs the government sure is not giving out free money without something not being given back in return and you can take that to the bank.

outrageous!!!

On Indian Pride - Have you run out of things to be outraged about? You ridiculously assert that the white man "occasionally" took Native American lands by fraud. How about the white man taking ALL Indian lands by fraud and deceit. I suggest you bone up on your American history. A good starting point would be "A Century of Dishonor" by Helen Hunt Jackson.

If the Indians can take whites' money via gambling, more power to them. They don't owe America taxes. America owes them the West.

I do see some problems with these special privileges. Are we cutting a break for the "real" indian natives? or are we creating another "children/grandchildren/great grand-grand children" (ad nauseam) slush fund??. This is what the "Hollowcaust"(Registered Trade Mark). Slush-fund has to cater to, and pay-off to the "Survivors" of the past German regime. Why don't the survivors of the Bolshevik revolution make the same claims ??? - after all they lost all their properties, and Million of their own?

Thank you Horton G. Bay for giving these guys a lesson in law . These most certainly are not only contractural agreements but contractural agreements that were broken over and over again by the U.S. government. And it's not that the Indians so much believed in the potency of war, as that the settlers did not give them an alternative. They didn't fight the settlers for control. They already had the control for thousands of years. It was the settleres that wrested the control from them due to superior weapons(firearms),theivery and fraud. Lets face it, the Indians were here first. It was their land. They had first claim. I wonder what white Americans would do if someone came in and through force took their land. I'll bet you would have a nice little war on your hands. So first you blame them for a poverty that was foisted upon them therough theivery and fraud, and then when they get smart, and start casinos, producing money to raise their living standerds, you put them down because they are getting government subsidies that were negotiated years ago, after the thievery of their own land ? I thought you guys were Libertarians and believed in honoring business contracts and entrepeneurial initiative and speculation, and were against taxes. Everything the Indians did was legal. Nobody seemed to care much when the Indians were starving, which many today still are, but when they get money you want to eat at the trough. Sorry folks the U.S. Government deserves what it gets for past misconduct. I'll tell you what. I am sure that the Indians would be thrilled to give up the agreement that it holds with the U.S. Government, if the U.S. Government would be willing to give up all the land they stole through force of arms, theivery, and fraud. Hell I'll bet they would even be willing to pay taxes. I would if I were them !

No wonder everyone is at our throats, they know shortly after we kick their butt in a war they will be better off than ever after we pump millions in aid into their economy to "make it right" for the "wrongs" we commited

Bravo Outrage!,

You even take on the politically correct and legislatively protected......good job.

Yep as I was reading this post I knew you guys had step in it this time.I have not a problem with the U.S. meeting it's contracts, but I do have a problem with is what is a native american they go so far as to .000 is still and indian no that is like everybody else just plain old american mixed blood or melting pot...

I'd say a bit more than "occasionally" Indians got to experience fraud on the part of the white man...

I'd like to see their subsidies end, but what I'd REALLY like is for them to finally be the sovereign nations the constitution says they are (meaning: ALL kinds of gambling, pot, prostitution even maybe, all over the nation in spots operating as a legal business.

JMR

Hey, did you guys study law from a cerial box? The Native Americans are entitled to federal money due to contractual agreements between the US government and tribes. It's not a giveaway, it's contractural, and the US government still meets its' legal commitments.