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WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR? 

WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR? You're an American citizen, and you have certain rights, right? For instance, unlike totalitarian countries, you cannot be arrested and held without charges being brought against you, the right to legal counsel, a bail hearing, and various other protections for those who have been charged, but not convicted.

But when the commentators said September 11 changed everything, they were sure right - your constitutional rights, which have evolved over centuries, got tossed. Now, all the government has to do is to charge you with terrorism, and all those rights - the rights that provide individuals protection against arbitrary government action - are so much dust into the dustbin.

Case in point: Terrorist suspect Jose Padilla - not charged with any crime, but held on suspicion of plotting a radioactive bomb attack against the US. And before you jump to the Rageback section to tell us what idiots we are for defending the rights of a terrorist, remember that, as of right now, he isn't a terrorist - he is simply someone arrested by the government, but not tried by any judge or jury. Padilla was born in the US and is an American citizen who was arrested in the US. The only information you have about Jose Padilla is the information provided by the government and disseminated by the media. It's also wise to keep in mind that "fighting terrorism" has now become the global buzz phrase to justify any sort of violence, and enemies of any government are now routinely referred to as "terrorists."

Let's be clear about the Outrage position - if Padilla is proven guilty,we hope he gets tossed to the sharks for piecemeal mutilation. The act that he may be guilty of is so evil that it is hard to imagine any punishment that would be too harsh - but only after he is convicted,according to the normal legal due process. And that may never happen,if you listen to Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld: "We're not interested in trying him at the moment," said Rumsfeld, traveling in Qatar. "We're not interested in punishing him at the moment." We're not arguing that Padilla be released - simply that he be charged and tried like any other suspect.

Innocent until proven guilty is the very bedrock of the American legal system, and the countries we fight against are the ones that arrest people, keep them in jail, and never bring charges. That's the sort of thing done in Castro's Cuba, Stalin's Soviet Union, or Mao's China -not in the US. To the extent that we give up the fundamental rights of the individual, the battle is already lost - there is no point in fighting if we're going to adopt the same weapons as our enemies. If this is the way we fight the War on Terrorism, we've already declared defeat.

READ ALL ABOUT IT!

To read more about the Jose Padilla case see:

U.S. labs eyed for bomb material

http://www.msnbc.com/news/764658.asp

Feds Say Dirty Bomb Suspect Plotted Other Attacks:
http://webcenter.newssearch.netscape.com/aolns_display.adp?key=2002061118050

Gov't: Padilla Was al-Qaida Protege:
http://webcenter.newssearch.netscape.com/aolns_display.adp?key=2002061118380

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0 comments on “WHAT ARE WE FIGHTING FOR?

  1. Actually, the Gov should torture this Padilla character and extract every once of information they can out of him, then take him out back, and quietly execute him. If we are going to win this war on terror, we must employ terrorist rules.

  2. I think The Outrage is right, which is what i’ve come to expect from their work. Who are we to deny a US CITIZEN, born and raised on US SOIL, the right to trial. WHat if it were me? Or you? Or any of my family, or any of your family? What then? The US MUST bring him to trial, if only to show that they have taken our lives, but they will never take OUR FREEDOM!!

  3. Any of you not afraid of being dragged out of bed in the middle of the night, and dragged away “forever” for being an enemy of the state should support the government in this action. The rest of us must fear for our freedom. Losing our rights like this is EXACTLY what the terrorists want, looks to me like they are winning.

  4. Since September 11, we have gone completely overboard on security. And this comes from a professional security manager with over 35 years in the business. Sadly, our leaders (politicians!) raise expectations that can never be fulfilled, while others use these sad and tragic events to pursue aims that are inimical with our stated aims, especially the notion of receiving due process. But of course, we’ve been down this road before when we interned and victimized a whole segment of our population and citizens at the outset of WWII. As far as I’m concerned, Mr. Padilla is entitled to all the rights the Constitution affords citizens. He is certainly entitled to the protections and due process Timoth McVeigh received after carrying out the bomb attack in Oklahoma City.

    Sy De Witt

  5. It is difficult to relate when the entire country might be under attack. Innocent until proven guilt is a solid and wonderful concept….and it works 99% of the time. But if 100 people are planning and attacking the country inside the USA….it might be another story……..you might want to unplug the war …….before it gets going, detain people to see if they are part of the problem……you don’t have the luxury of planning to go to trial. You need to figure out what is going on. By the way, to me every person detained….should be given relief….and be paid, at least $1,000 per week for each week jailed…….if they are found not to be involved….and should be given extra money for any lose by their business. So we don’t have people suffering for nothing. Remember that this guy, was tracked, so I assume they have the evidence to show that he was ready to do a bomb. It sounds like they do have that, of course, they can lie about this, but if they do, they should be able to detain this guy for a certain period of time……….to unplug the event. This should be used carefully, and it should be understood, if they are found innocent, that they will receive compensation, and proper compensation for every day they are detained.

  6. IF WE WAIT FOR ‘THE SYSTEM’ TO CATCH UP WITH THE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVED GUILTY THEORY IT WILL TAKE YEARS, BE TRIED IN THE PRESS, HE’LL HAVE A BLEEDING HEART MOVEMENT FEEL FOR HIM, AND WE’LL SUPPORT HIM ON DEATH ROW FOR 50 YEARS WHILE GOING THROUGH NUMEROUS APPEALS. HE WAS WATCHED FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE BEING ARRESTED. GIVE THE FEDS A BREAK FOR A CHANGE!

  7. I agree totally with The Outrage. What are we waiting for? Why won’t our Govt. charge him? What is our Govt. afraid of? This could just as easily happen to you or me or one of our family members. Our rights as Americans are going down the tubes very slowly. So slowly as a matter of fact, that most of us don’t even see it coming.

  8. OK , let me get this right. Jose Padilla is an ex gangbanger who has been
    > in and out of jail since his early teens. His most recent employment was
    > Taco Bell yet he jets around the world with 10 grand in his pocket and hob
    > nobs with upper echelon al-Quida members. By his actions and by virtue of
    > the FACT that we are at war, national security would dictate he be held
    > indefinately for interogation. The fact that he is a U.S. citizen only
    > means he should be executed for treason. You guys are sounding like the
    > ACLU. Get a grip .
    >
    >
    > WRL

  9. I think Outrage is right.
    One thing is to catch terrorism another thing is to see a terrorist in any one who is not following the normality.
    It seems USA is brainwashing its citizens with the fear of terror, just to hide what’s going wrong in the country.
    Fight for freedom, human rights, fight against the hunger in the world, the envading pollution.

  10. You seem to jump to the conclusion that the athorities are holding this Padilla for no reason. I would believe that they have sufficient reason to hold him. If we let these people have rein like we did before 9-11 then we will get the same thing we got then and I ,for one, don’t care to go thru that again.
    Our rights have been taken away before in WWII and with right cause. We let people in this country that have no right to be here. We don’t need any more of Castro’s prisoners or anyone elses for that matter.

    The people of this country do have a right to be protected by our government and not to listen to some bleeding heart jerk that has the means to publish something on the internet.

  11. There is evidence strongly suggesting Jose was meeting with those we are at war with for the purpose of aiding the effort against us.

    That being the case, Jose has forfeited certain rights as a citizen.

    One does not have the right to collaborate with the enemy and expect impunity. Nor does one have the right to a speedy public trial when that trial would expose the very system which identified the collaboration.

    The constitution is alive and well.

  12. I agree. No one should be held without being charged. If there is not enough evidence to charge him; he should be released. If they can hold him without a charge then our gov’t can do the same to you and me

  13. Get over it!!! Our rights have been gone for a long time. There’s no law that says you can’t OFFEND someone but you can get punished if you do. Outrage said “as of right now, he isn’t a terrorist”. That isn’t necessarily true. He either is or isn’t, no matter what any court says. I guess you think O.J. isn’t a murderer!!!

  14. I agree, terrorist suspects should be charged – AND – tried. The fundamental backbone of our legal system is such that protects rights of the individual – to an extent. If we are not going to charge this person Jose – then he should be set free. If charged – tried – convicted – I hope is balls are fed to a camel!

  15. These are times that try a mans soul. Should we apply our hard earned historical legal rights to those that seek to destroy us?
    I say no.
    In any other situation, the answer is yes, but in the case of terrorism, in light of what these terrorists are capable of, the rules must change. Those that seek to destroy us have no regard for the rules or rights of others. They didn’t go floor by floor in the World Trade Center to inquire as to how people felt about the situation in the Middle East and were they enemies of Islamic Movement, did they?
    There was no government in the Middle East that stepped up to the podium to condemn the actions of the terrorists at any point, then or now.

    We have as a nation, created laws and rights based on the generally accepted rules of decency and ethics. Unfortunately, the terrorists have no regard for either. Their only purpose is to kill and terrorize in the name of Islam. They have declared war on us.
    The rules of war are different than the rules we impose upon ourselves in times of peace.
    We don’t have a hearing to determine if every enemy combatant we plan to kill has actually tried to kill one of us. We don’t convene tribunals to determine if a POW is guilty of killing our people, before he is cast into a POW camp. We must, in the heat of battle, shoot first and ask questions later, assuming “if it looks like a dog, and it sounds like a dog and it bites like a dog” there’s a damn good chance it is a dog.
    The old adage, “better a thousand gulity go free than one innocent be imprisoned” was never a valid argument.

    In the military, and I served for twelve years, you are presumed guilty until you prove yourself innocent. It may not be the most accurate intepretation of the regulations but is it indeed a fact of life.

    Sorry, I cannot accept the argument of the ACLU, that this individual, or any other ‘terrorist’ or person associated with known terrorists, has the same rights that I have as an American citizen.
    We open our country to all who love freedom. We open our treasury, our schools, our charities, and even our hearts, to any who want to live free and abide by our laws. You can join us in citizenship. But, the day you pick up arms or plot to destroy us, you are no longer a part of our society, regardless of your nationality, religion or circumstances. You are one of the dogs of war and as such, you shall be destroyed as a rabid dog is destroyed.

  16. I agree that Innocent before Guilty is a main point in our legal system but one needs to look closely at the Constitution. Nowhere in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any other amendments does it ever mention being innocent before proven guilty. A loose Constitutionalist could argue that “due process” means that you are innocent until proven otherwise but you could also argue that it is due process to hold a criminal until he is put on trial and proven one way or another. Some people take some “rights” for granted that aren’t rights at all. Keep that in mind.

  17. I am not outraged at this attack on Padilla’s civil rights. I am however deeply concerned. Having watched the government run amok for years in its prosecution of the ill-conceived “War on Drugs”, I know what the government will do when they perceive that there is popular support for the violation of certain people’s rights. There has been little outcry over the wholesale theft of money and property by the government (federal, state and local) in drug cases. People in many states are stopped on the highway and their money seized simply because some deputy dog decided they had too much cash. “He had five grand in his pocket, so he must be up to no good” is a typical justification. We are hearing the same thing about Padilla. “He didn’t have a job and he had ten grand, he must be a terrorist”.

    Here’s the really scary thing: When you arrest someone because you think he may be about to commit a crime, you have arrested someone who has not committed the crime which brought about his arrest. This is not the way our system of justice works–period.

  18. I read an article where the government “claimed” they had “absolute proof” of his guilt.
    I believe that if this is true then the government should offer that proof via our standard
    and publicly accepted legal process. Giving in to this military “lack of intelligence” way of
    thinking is just handing the terrorists another victory … they want to destroy our way of life and
    with our government’s own help they are succeeding.

    It scares the hell out of me to read polls where citizens are readly to give up their hard earned
    rights. Not me … I’m a normal law-abiding citizen who has LOVED my country but FEARED my government.
    But I won’t give in to this type of thinking. If for some reason the feds find “absolute proof”
    that I am a terrorist, I will know that they are lying (because I am not a terrorist) and I will
    defend myself and my family to my (and their) deaths.

  19. It’s been like this ever since September 11th. Suddenly racism and discrimination is “okay” again. Simply because it’s against a people who happen to look like the people who might have bombed us. Or because it’s against someone who might not like us but never did anything about it. I will say no more other then that this proves what a primitive nation we really are.

  20. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
    The rights of which we speak in this discussion are not given by virtue of our country, government, or Constitution. We were born with these rights. The Constitution, of with the Bill of Rights is a part, merely forbids the government from usurping these rights. If we accept the premise from the above quote, then all men posses these same rights.
    The proper thing to do is to present the charges to a Grand Jury or other PUBLIC panel, and let it be decided if the evidence warrants holding the accused. To allow these issues to be determined in a sealed inquiry is tantamount to invoking the “Star Chambers” of history. If it is determined the charges are justified, hold him without bail, as he certainly qualifies as a “flight risk”, and danger to society.
    To take, without due process, the rights with which a person was born lowers us to the same level as those who wish to destroy us. To allow such actions means they have already won, because we have lost that for which brave and true Americans have fought and died.

  21. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”

    The rights of which we speak in this discussion are not given by virtue of our country, government, or Constitution. We were born with these rights. The Constitution, of with the Bill of Rights is a part, merely forbids the government from usurping these rights. If we accept the premise from the above quote, then all men posses these same rights.

    The proper thing to do is to present the charges to a Grand Jury or other PUBLIC panel, and let it be decided if the evidence warrants holding the accused. To allow these issues to be determined in a sealed inquiry is tantamount to invoking the “Star Chambers” of history. If it is determined the charges are justified, hold him without bail, as he certainly qualifies as a “flight risk”, and danger to society.

    To take, without due process, the rights with which a person was born lowers us to the same level as those who wish to destroy us. To allow such actions means they have already won, because we have lost that for which brave and true Americans have fought and died.

  22. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”

    The rights of which we speak in this discussion are not given by virtue of our country, government, or Constitution. We were born with these rights. The Constitution, of with the Bill of Rights is a part, merely forbids the government from usurping these rights. If we accept the premise from the above quote, then all men posses these same rights.

    The proper thing to do is to present the charges to a Grand Jury or other PUBLIC panel, and let it be decided if the evidence warrants holding the accused. To allow these issues to be determined in a sealed inquiry is tantamount to invoking the “Star Chambers” of history. If it is determined the charges are justified, hold him without bail, as he certainly qualifies as a “flight risk”, and danger to society.

    To take, without due process, the rights with which a person was born lowers us to the same level as those who wish to destroy us. To allow such actions means they have already won, because we have lost that for which brave and true Americans have fought and died.

  23. According to the U.S. Constitution: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. That being said it also says: No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. and further; Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. So it would seem that if two people saw Jose with the Al-Quida giving them aid and comfort, that he could be tried for treason and still be within our laws. I believe that he must be tried immediatly and allowed to answer for his apparent crimes, then quickly and quietly be exacuted like the apparent dog he is.

  24. I don’t care if they ever charge him. He should be shot as a traitor without benefit of any trial. He is guilty primaface.

  25. As has already been said, It’s WAR, not crime. Weep for Padilla if you like.

    The constitution was not written with anarchists in mind. Citizen or not, in the days leading up to the Revolutionary War, guys like Padilla would have been brought before a military tribunal and subsequently shot.

    I’ll take the Justice Department’s word, in this instance, that they have the goods on this prison convert to Islam and habitual miscreant. Of course we could turn him loose so he could disappear, then we could wait until after he has committed his crime, and let the police find him. They the ACLU would appoint Hymie Finklestein to get him off.

    Nope. I think this fellow is too dangerous to be on the loose–especially given his circle of friends. He needs to be in the jailhouse.

  26. We MUST watch the government BUT we must give them some latitude
    as well, especially in light of the fact that we’re fighting an enemy that sleeps
    in the same bed we do. Now, if half the population of Dallas starts disappearing
    at the hands of feds looking to interrogate without due process, then, damn it,
    we better all stand up and do something. The reality is that we’re kept in the dark
    by a government telling us what they think we need to hear and a media biased
    in way unprecendented in history. Timing is everything and the Outrage is jumping
    the gun here, taking the left-wing over-reactionary view to this. The Outrage best hold
    on tight as current news suggests that a whole boatload of ‘Americans’ is about to come
    under the scrutiny of the Feds.

  27. Nine times out of ten, I agree with you guys.

    This, however, is the tenth, i have absolutley no problem with how the government has handled the Padilla/Mujahedir case.

    As far as I’m concerned, this guy, and anyone like him, has lost his so-called civilian rights due to his traitorous activities.

    Americans who have not behaved as he has should not fear erosion of any of their rights.

    Surely you guys, who have railed so well in the past against real injustice and political correctness, should be able to tell the difference.

    Cheers!

  28. You are exactly right. What is the point of fighting against foreign police states if we are using police state tactics? Why oppose tyranny with tyrannical behavior? Only a free country is worth fighting for, and such practices mean we are less and less a free country. Thank you for your outrage.

  29. isn’t ashame lee harvey oswald never got to trial? are we sure, absolutely sure that muslims are our enemy on the basis of terrorism? as a bible believing christian myself, on the level of beliefs , yes they are our enemy, but this discussion is not about religious beliefs. it is about whom can they, (our illustrious gov. leaders) , aka pawns, use to scare the hell out of ma and pa. anyone familiar with the barbarian at the gate theory? it all can be traced back to Fredrich Hegel in Germany from the 19th century. it works like this, thesis, antithesis, synthesis. face it commrades, america is the only thing standing in the way total global governance, why because a lot of us are dumb enough to believe in the holy Bible, and the Word of Jehovah and we are armed to the teeth. get rid of us and the terriosm thing will look like a picnic. trust me. so, regardless of mr. padilla choice of friends, and assoicates, he is not our big worry, it’s more like who is guarding the hen house, and unfortunately it people like garry condit, or charles schaumer, or heaven forbid, hillary clinton. we ani’t seen nothing yet like they plan to uleash on good american citizens. keep your powder dry.

  30. We elect people (God! Help us! they are mostly att-turn-keys) to serve as our representatives in official positions of PUBLIC TRUST(ever notice how DEAD public trust really is…in today’s America) to provide “benefit” (notice it is not plural or multipulied) to people of America. This mere man, suspected of being “terrorist”-not found guilty in any Civil Court of Law- is being held publicly without being charged with any crime whatsoever. This is the setting-in-place for formation of absolute miliant goverance in which no Living soul has even the slightest degree of Rights Inherent, Certain, and Clear. People stand idlely by, claiming safety is their greatest concern. Such tactics at the hands of government should sound the alarms in the hearts of all mankind, no one is safe if this sort of “Capturing” and “Holding” without public trial is allowed to continue in America. If this man is such a threat to the American people, let him stand at trial and face his accusers with their evidences and facts. Somebody pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaase! bring back common sense and some semblence of reason to the acts/actions of those we elect -not to run amok with hysteria- to serve under duty for righteousness sake..

  31. You are absolutely correct. Our government has increasingly bent and twisted the Constitution to suit whatever situation arises. By using the educational system to “dumb” down the people they are slowly succeeding in corrupting the original intent of the founders. The people , generally, no longer are even capable of recognizing what is happening. Otherwise why would anyone vote Democratic?

  32. You are correct that even those suspected of the most heinous crimes should be accorded due process. God Bless us all, we need it.

  33. Bitch slap him.

    Yeah, I understand the concern of goverment abuse.

    At this point I’ll trust the G’men to behave appropriately,
    and not to use thier new powers to gain an advantage over personal affairs as apposed to public concerns?

    Just leave us indigenous folks
    alone for a change.

    Watch ‘Windtalkers’, read
    ‘Hanta Yo’ and some Sherman Alexie stories.

    Bitch slap them terrorist, stop them from turning the USA
    into a suicidal bombing zone.

  34. You have to be kidding, if you believe that this government has ever been concerned about justice as it is stated in the constitution.
    Having been a victim of when the government wants to screw you, I know there is no such thing as justice, unless it is convenient for them. Take off the rose colored glasses, the real world is not what is written in the constitution, but whatever the government powers want.

  35. Should Padilla be held?!? Well, <expletive-deleted>! Best to be safe than sorry. What action would *YOU* wish to see taken – wait until the idiot blows something up? Hold him? Nah….Let him loose. I need some target practice.

  36. When did The Outrage turn into an alarmist liberal mouthpiece? *sigh* anyways, your arguement that we trampled on constitutional rights with Pedilla is wrong because we have a right to Due Process. Unfortunately for Pedilla, he has declared himself an enemy of the U.S. during war, which means his due process is indefinite imprisonment. Its not like he got arrested for drugs. He got arrested for being an enemy of the U.S. and so he gets due process to that end.

  37. I spent 30 years defending this country and the rights of the people to live under the shelter of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The FEDS may have already violated ammendments 4 & 5 in this case, and if they don’t get off the dime they will blow their own case by violating the Sixth Amendment. This is an outrage! Quote follows:

    Amendment IV.
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Amendment V.
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

    Amendment VI.
    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

    Please God, don’t let us tarnish our own colors!

    ChPete <><

  38. We should all be worried when anyone! anyone! can be held without charges. The Ricco laws meant for prosecution of organized crime is now being used on anti-abortion demonstrators and on catholic bishops and priests for the molestation of children.
    Once the law is on the books, it can be used on every and anyone.
    This also leads into Boy George Bush wanting to form his own covert agency. When the last time that happened Ronald Regan was caught using FBI agents for his personal screwing of people who did not go along with his point of view and that were from the wrong political party.
    We need to watch “Boy George” and his covert buddies.

  39. In a message dated 6/13/2002 8:33:03 AM Central Daylight Time, moderator@www.dailyoutrage.com writes:

    <<But when the commentators said September 11 changed everything, they
    were sure right – your constitutional rights, which have evolved over
    centuries, got tossed.>>

    The Sixteenth Amendment, Class Action, and the Controlled Substances Act preceded 9/11 by decades. Where was the outrage then?

    bastiatlaw@aol.com

  40. He should absolutely have a trial. How can they hold him without cause? Oh, that’s right, we have an honest government with very honest informants (right). If he’s found guilty, I think they should bring back the medieval torcher devices, but he should be put on trial and found guilty! Is this going to be another phase of “Witch Hunts”?

  41. What a wonderful world this would be if “everyone” played by the rules. Like those who disliked our way of life would declare a war and fight that war conventionally attacking only military targets. What a shame they don’t feel the same way about our system rules as we do.
    Personally I think we should adapt to accomadate their battle tactics philosophy. Reward our military personnel in this life with a few wildly subservient members of the sex of their choice whenever they complete a dangerious mission.
    Then let us turn Disneyland, Disney World, Six Flags, and the Great America Theme Parks into little boots camps to train our little children to be the best possible military agents we can provide.
    Yes, lets play the game by “their rules” and see how they and the rest of the world for that matter like it, and how much longer they will last.

  42. I say jail him. If we wait for threats to fully materialize, we will have waited too long. Jailing him is the lesser evil? We’re at war.

  43. american or anyone that picks up arms against the USA or commits an act of terrorist
    against the USA, Should NOT
    have any rights at anything

  44. This man should be held – like any criminal – though he should be charged with a crime before doing so. Then given the same rights as anyone charged with a crime. It seems that with a crime of this nature by simply deny him bail would be the just thing to do until he can be brought to trial. This is an american citizen we are talking about. I cannot beleive people have gotten to the point where they will offer their freedoms and rights to the governement on a silver platter. Then call it patriotism.

    You along with Padilla should be locked up because of lack of common horse sense—I wonder how you liberal dogs
    would feel if you were directly effected by the 9-11

  45. I am quite stressed over the loss of our Constitutional protections. Are we protecting freeedom or surendering them to fear? I say enough. Throw out the bums who throw out our Constitutional Rights.

  46. When the UK decided that internment without trial was a good idea in our local war against Irish terrorists the USA, rightly, told us we were wrong. Why are things different now?

  47. No, nobody should be held without due process – isn’t that one of the issues the “Cold War” was all about..?

  48. Wake UP! Our criminal justice system is designed to prove the innocence or guilt of the acused AFTER the commision of a crime. Lets see, what shall we do in the name protecting Jose Padilla’s precious rights? Let me try to think like you for a second….AH! Let him detonate the weapon! Brilliant! His rights will be intact, thank God. But Manhattan (if that were the chosen target) would be a ghost town for the next few decades due to the radiation. Chalk one up for the terrorists at Athens News Media. Who’s side are you people on?

    And for you civil rights cry babies: what can you NOT do today that you COULD do on 9/10? Honestly, if the menbers of the WWII generation, who put up with every kind of rationing and restriction you can imagine, were to read the tripe and belly-aching in some of these posts, they’d puke up their Ensure on their keyboards.

  49. Everyone who knows the record:
    Watergate and Richbard Nixon’s use of the FBI and IRS to harass political opponents,
    Ronald Reagan’s private FBI army that harassed innocent American citizens (rogue FBI agents?),
    George Bush’s attempt to track everyone from cradle to grave through the IRS and Census Bureaus, and now
    BoyGeorge W. Bush in the White House that wants to start his own FBI, CIA, NSA secret army to harass innocent American Citizens
    needs to write their congressmen and senators protesting this Republican secret army.
    I would think Americans would wake up to the Republican party agenda after the corrupt election we just had. I am one of the majority of Americans that did not vote for Bush and the covert taking over of our country.
    The Republican crooks are up to no good again!

  50. Everyone who knows the record:
    Watergate and Richbard Nixon’s use of the FBI and IRS to harass political opponents,
    Ronald Reagan’s private FBI army that harassed innocent American citizens (rogue FBI agents?),
    George Bush’s attempt to track everyone from cradle to grave through the IRS and Census Bureaus, and now
    BoyGeorge W. Bush in the White House that wants to start his own FBI, CIA, NSA secret army to harass innocent American Citizens
    needs to write their congressmen and senators protesting this Republican secret army.
    I would think Americans would wake up to the Republican party agenda after the corrupt election we just had. I am one of the majority of Americans that did not vote for Bush and the covert taking over of our country.
    The Republican crooks are up to no good again!

  51. In time of war things are different, even the law. Unless we want to find ourselves on our knees in front of those who don’t have time for the delicate beliefs of certain members of the white wine and brie set we had better take matters in hand. Hold him without a trial, hell no, hang him. How many Puerto Ricans vacation in Afganistan?

  52. A copy of this article was sent to my parents. Thier reaction was don’t send anymore of your antigovernment stuff to us. How do we fight against a government turning tyranical and a poulation of people (sheeple) who are totally asleep at the switch. Some days I feel like we are on a speeding locomotive heading for a bridge that was blown out.

  53. To all those who give up your freedom so easily, please leave now before America and everything it used to stand for is gone.

    The outrage, as usual, is dead on with this. I’ve actually been considering where I would move if American politicians continue to erode our freedom and the ignorant American public continues to go along with it like sheep.
    All of you who assume Jose is guilty because there’s evidence, have you seen it? Do you really know it exists. What if I made one phone call that implicated your mother, or father, or brothers or sisters and they were detained indefinitely with no innocent until proven guilty rights? Would you feel the same about this travesty? I think not.

  54. In reading the ‘outrage’ comments, numerous people believe it is ok to hold this citizen w/o due process stating “This man was watched and tracked, the feds have proof to hold him.” So my question would be, if they have so much proof, where’s the problem in charging, convicting, and executing him a.s.a.p. so that we can teach a lesson to other terrorists. Just a reminder, we are NOT at war; you tell me what happened to osama? Why has the government stopped looking for him and bringing him to justice, instead they are making plans to attack Iraq! Let’s find osama FIRST! Unless we are to tell the families of those who died on 9/11, their killers will never be brought to justice!

    He should be released on bail immediately. All you that feel otherwise must think that the government and all law enfocement are the paragons of virtue and honesty, hah?

    See our site —
    http://community.webtv.net/CNYWP/DontTalktoCops

  55. Hey America WAKE UP !!! look at all the wars that we wage on our own citizens !!! That should tell you something about the ‘officials calling the shots in the white house’ AND U voted for it !! thats the biggest laugh yet. What good has any of these ‘wars’ brought? War on poverty, on drugs, now on terrorism? Can’t you see the pattern? If you keep yourself distracted by thinking we are invaded by these foreign terrorists you’ll miss the faces of the ‘real terrorists’ Hint: Last name bush ..

  56. “You will remain innocent untill proven guilty in the court of law.” So often we hear this. As I see it, it is still upholding till this day; Even with terrorists! You got to remember you are not always told the truth. Also the media not always have all the details. Only the people at work know what’s going on. I’m almost positive MANY secret wars are being fought around the world. Have you ever noticed it’s always peaches and pie in the US? I bet the pentagon is not allowing outside information to the public. I’m guessing wars are being kept away from US soil, and that’s how we don’t know…

    Now getting back to the subject…haha. I ramble on sometimes. This guy could of been part of a much bigger thing than we relize. As long as you are a citizen, you will not know the whole truth.

  57. this is for those who think the threat on america is not real and who keep on defeninding there so called rights by the constition they have no rights when they atack this country they took there rights away im tired of listening to these people who caom to this country and bring tere culture with them for example a man was carrying a 14 inch knife i believe fron india in a sash when he was stopped by police he says but this is what we do in my country and then started saying he was violated from his rights we live by laws in the usa for everyone so stop trying to bring yur ways into this country and think america has to change for you . anothere instance alady from the middle east wanted to cover half of her face on here drivers license so you couldnt tell here identity what a way for terroists to gain ground. so to those of you who think were violating someones rights ./ stop defending those who already took yours. america needs to stop buying into all this prejudice that people keep crying about only to gain ground on america the terriist threat to america is real we in no way will buy into anything we will do whatever it takes to protect our children and our country so stop trying to gain ground by telling that someone is voilating your rights you already violated ours

  58. the more immigrants in this country espciaally from the middle east who come into this country who are trying to build a terroists base here dont think for a minute we wil rest if yu think were prejudice because of the color of your skin i dont really care you did it to yourself so if you think your a suspect because of the color of your skin you are so shut up./ its hard to believe this is america ./ its more like many different contries all living inside a large land area is this really america . if its united we stand your right but what about the rest alert1./ i think america needs to watch out for a secret interior base being built up here to overthrow it ././ for those who think were violating yur rights kiss my god giving aaaa./.././

  59. have you ever noticed the endind of democrat it spells rat./ the problem with you democrats is yu think that people dont have common sense yo promise them freedom./ but the rat tells it all you think you have to tell people what to do what is just every day common sense what are you stupid. at least most republicans believe in freedom ,and that most people have everyday common sense so for all you democrats kiss my aaaaaa,,, and stop trying to enslave the human spirit./

  60. this is for all who are secretly trying to take freedom away from the human spirit and all the antigunners out there do you reaally think were buying that shi……// you are some of the ones trying to take our freedom you dumb a/// were here and were ready. we will defend freedom at all all cost . you anti freedom pieces of shi……///

  61. Im only 26, but I saw this kind of lunicy comming almost 10 years ago. Every civilizaion that as ever acheaved greatness in the past has succomed to the same thing. Greed, fear, and Hate. It is an inevatable progression of the human race. And will remain so as long as we allow ourselfs to be fooled by thouse who dont care about our future. WHo dont care about right or wroung. By thouse who only care about “Me, what I want, right now” This form of person has been around throughout history, and they have always been willing to take advantage of ANY sitiuation to gain what they want, at the expense of others. The tragady of 9/11 has scared our country, it was a wakeup call for all thouse who belived that the dangers of the world where “out there” and not a part of us. But it has also quickly become the catch-all excuse of thouse who want more power “We must do this to Protect all of you from thouse who would do us harm” ge thanks bud, now who is going to protect me from the harm YOU will do? this downfall is an inevetable constant. I give us about 50 years or so tops. Our generation will be the last to see the wounders of this particualar civilization, there will be a time of famin, a time of pain, then the pendulum will swing back up again, and another civilization will rise to take its place, look to the history books, Your future is written there in the past. Are we so aragent to belive we are somehow better than our ansesters where becuse we have learned a few more tricks? Have a few more toys? No, we are not. Time will pass, things will happen. just watch. And one day, our childrens great grand-children will read in there histroy books about one of the civilizations in the past called “america” that was great in its time, but succumed to the natrual prgression of time. And there will be nick nacks of crosses with about the same respect we give to the religious icons of the past. Archiologest wil dig up old bones and say “What did this life look like?” Just as they do today. Should we be sa becuse of this? Now, should we be angry? of course, its not fair, but anyone who ever promied you a fair life, was a fool who should have known better.

  62. I don’t think they should let him go, but it’s not for the same reasons as most of the other Outraged people who have posted.

    At this point letting Padilla go would be death on the poor man. He would, in order to survive, have to change his name, move, and possibly get plastic surgery. His life would never be the same because he would always feel hunted (even if he weren’t actually) by the people who still believe him guilty of the gravest of crimes. Now, if he actually did these things I suggest they let him go. Right in front of where the World Trade Center. And then I suggest that all of the NYPD go to a conference in Cleveland.

    The government is doing him a huge favor by keeping him locked up.

  63. Then we BECOME TERRORISTS!!!
    We’ll detain people, and excute them! We’ll make innconet confess to crimes they do not commit, and then excute them!

    We’ll start a police state, and rule the States with an iron fists. The FBI(or should i say “thought police”) will spy on you, and keep records. We’ll be ruled by fear, fear, and fear of antour terrrorist attack.

    Do we want to destory our rights to save our rights? That doublethink. No, the Outrage is right, America has gone too far.

  64. ya i got a little rage against rage and i just feel like masterbating with my aunt linda for only two dollars and ten seconds. THAT IS IF YOU DONT MIND.

  65. Hey you, you guys which disagree with the Outrage and think it would be a good idea to lock him up — or Padilla, or generally ANYONE who thinks in the same way! If only you all COULD KNOW, that you sound EXACTLY like communists in the USSR or crazy nazists in all the wolrld! Oh boy, where is your American democraty, where is your tolerance, where is you freedom of expression, I wonder??? Or maybe two-three damn fanatics of 9-11 dextroyed not only the WTC, but also your free minds?

    I won’t disagree with the Outrages and I also don’t want to agree. I just would like to remember — everyone on this small planet has a RIGHT to THINK free, and you can disagree with him/her if you like, but, NEVER say he should be locked up or jailed or smth like this. If you say it, you are not Americans any more — you are…. Germans of 1933!

  66. i hoap yew americkins get bawmed by Al Ka-eeda. Yewve bin putting peeple in jail withawt trail sins the start.
    )the indian resevres were just big jails, and in 1871, citizens were empowered to shoot hostile indians on sight, a hostile indian being any indian not on a reserve)
    ah hoap Padilla bawms yew (it’s difficult to spell American)

  67. I think you bleeding hearts out there who think the American justice system is failing Mr. Padilla and that it’s just a matter of time before the U.S. turns into a police state have really lost sight of this whole thing. Padilla’s not your everyday, garden variety type of criminal. He didn’t just steal a car, rob a liquor store, or write bad checks all over town–things that get you a quick trip to court and then jail. Who out there does not understand that Padilla has engaged in treasonous activities? There is no question about what he did and where he went and with whom. Freedom of speech is one thing, but When you actively conspire against your own country, travel to a foreign country unfriendly (to say the least) to the U.S. and take up with its people, who have already established their enmity toward us through word and deed, you clearly define yourself as a militant enemy of the United States. That crime goes way past the local courts, as it should. When your crime falls under the jurisdiction of the military you can be held indefinitely, just as though you were a prisoner of war–which Padilla pretty much is. I think they can still hang you for treason, so I bet, unlike some of you think, Padilla’s in no big hurry to get to trial. As far as I’m concerned he should be stripped of his citizenship and put out to sea on a raft, along with all middle easterners who are in this country illegally.

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