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SUDDEN PASSIONS 

SUDDEN PASSIONS An eye for an eye? So passe. We know better now.
Sometimes people who are possessed by sudden passions they kill their spouse or beat a child to death. Forgive and forget. Just keep it in the family.

Texas jurors found Jimmy Watkins guilty of murdering his wife, but believed that he acted in "sudden passion" and thus sentenced him only to probation. Watkins encountered his wife, Nancy, and her lover, Keith Fontenot, at his home. After wounding his wife, he shot her lover. He drove away, thinking he was out of ammo. He then realized he had a few bullets left and, his sudden passion not yet having subsided, returned to the house to shoot his wife to death as she tried to call 911.

We’re delighted by this verdict. Here at the Outrage we’re kinda prone to sudden passions, but we hadn’t realized that they gave us the right to off unfaithful girlfriends or lovers. Cool. We wonder if sudden passion also applies at work? Troublesome customer? Bang, bang, end of problem. Argument with your boss? - just keep enough ammo on hand. (But make sure the piece is licensed - killing is one thing, but using an unregistered weapon could get you in some real trouble.)

There are some problems with killing adults, even in sudden passion - sometimes they shoot back. If you’re feeling angry, better to beat up a completely defenseless child. As for the people who think that knowingly injuring a child, especially your own child, is an act that only a subhuman could commit - hey baby, get with the times.

Nichole Ketchum and her boyfriend Larry Gathers beat Ketchum’s 2-year-old child, Lesshayvia, to death. In addition to bruises from being hit and/or kicked, the child had burn marks at the time of her death. According to Stafford County, Virginia prosecutor Eric Olsen "This child just suffered horribly."

As the result of a plea bargain, Ketchum will serve six months in jail - Gathers got 3 years. We’re really surprised they’re having to serve any time at all - all they did was torture and kill a child. It’s not like they committed some really serious crime, like writing sexually suggestive emails at work. (Careful - even in a sudden passion, you can still get hammered for crimes against humanity - sexual harassment, tax evasion, that sort of thing.)

What kind of environment did this child spend her only 2 years in? There were six adults living in a trailer in the aptly named "Paradise Estates" trailer park. Larry Gathers’ brother, Donte, was one of the six. In a separate incident, Donte Gathers was charged in August with severely injuring his 33 day-old child.

Nichole Ketchum, mother of the dead child, was not in that trailer the day her daughter died. She was in the hospital, bringing a new life into the world. The father is Larry Gathers, her accomplice in the death of her first daughter. The new baby’s uncle is Donte Gathers, who almost killed his own child. Welcome to the family.

READ ALL ABOUT IT!

Both of these stories were submitted by Outraged readers.

To read more about the angry husband, see http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/19991022/od/crime_sentence_1.html

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0 comments on “SUDDEN PASSIONS

  1. I’ve arrived at the point of thinking “an eye for an eye” is the only way to punish perpetrators.
    If everyone knew beforehand that whatever deed they did to someone else would be visited upon them, there would be no wondering what punishment the jury or judge
    were going to mete out.
    A killer would be killed.
    A murderer would be murdered
    A robber would relinquish all his belongings – forever.
    To hit an old person would mean getting hit by a group of old people.
    Split open someone’s head and yours will be smashed to smithereens.
    To knife someone would be to get knifed efficiently.
    To kill someone while driving drunk would mean being killed by a troop of drunk drivers
    If someone killed a child they would be killed in the most violent way possible but this would be done by very large, very angry men!
    By using “an eye for an eye” there would no longer be plea bargaining whereas criminals are allowed to trade away guilt. There would be little need for prisons. AND if you’re asking “who would choose to ‘pay back’ violators” I know of endless people who would volunteer in a split second so we could bring justice back to this country!

  2. OUTRAGE!!!
    what is wrong with the people of this country! what has happened to the innocent not being guilty until tried in a court of law?????? what kind of crime can a child commit that a crazed adult has the right to legally execute that child for. how defensiveless is the adult against the power of a child that the adult has the right to kill him/her??? i say give the adult the same punishment the child had to endure…cruel and unusual punishment? who spoke up for the rights of the child? yes i am outraged, that a so called advanced society would stand for this injustice.

  3. Well unless you have been in that circumstance you can’t
    really say how you’d feel. Unless you know the full story you sill
    can’t judge. You can only speculate what the right sentence is
    if things were as you “imagine” them to be.

    Always remember that some peoples death is a blessing
    to society. I can think of a few, as I am sure you can an wouldn’t feel\
    a bit of remorse

    So with that in mind I’d say that all circumstance,
    must be considered before final judgement can be
    passed.

  4. My ex adultrous wife walked out on four children to marry the tavernkeeper with whom she was involved wiyh.
    FOUR MONTHS is way too much time. The guy should have received a medal.

  5. This is truly horrific. If we do not treasure and protect human life, what are we doing on earth at all? This is a mockery of our justice system, and should be changed!

  6. What should we expect? The so-called liberals have cheapened human life to the point where murder of another human being can be blamed on anyone or anything but the perpetrator.

    What’s the solution?

    As Mr. Limbaugh puts it, “we need more God.”

  7. who cares if some kid living in the american suburbs is killed.
    childrean in todays society are more destructive than they are creative with overpopulaiton..etc
    kill em all

  8. You bet your ass I would kill the SOB in bed at MY house with my wife. Whats the matter with you pansies???

  9. the outrage of the Ketchum/Gathers story to me is the fact
    that he got more time than she did! its been when anyone
    kills a child…but to kill one that came out of your own flesh
    and blood is just beyond me. i’ve been extremely aggitated
    with my kids and fully believe in ‘spanking’ but to kill them?
    a similar occurence happened where i live and the guy also
    only got about 6 mths…there was another child living at the
    household and when given the choice of losing the remaining
    child or never seeing her b/f again..the mother gave up her
    child….HAIL THE DEATH PENALTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. I reside in Williamson County,
    Cedar Park,Texas(just outside
    of Austin). This used to be a
    “tough on crime” county; until
    a very soon to be appointed
    lawyer as a Criminal Courts’
    Judge got his client off for
    shooting his father in the
    back.This same “Judge” also
    defended(& proudly)..Henry Lee
    Lucus; admitted mass murderer
    of 13 people in the 1980’s.
    This sick lawyer’s name;soon
    to be a damn Judge is Don H.

  11. If I found my wife in bed in MY house with another man I would definately cap him …

    And I agree that sudden passion is important in the SENTENCING phase of the trial. But should not be allowed to effect the jurys decision.

  12. To Adam, who said “kill em all”: If you really meant what you wrote, then I hope you die soon and burn in hell from here to eternity.

  13. I don’t know about now, but when I was current on Texas law, catching adultery in the act by a spouse was grounds for justifiable homicide for either or both of the actors. Perhaps the logic then, at a time when couples mated for life, was that adultery meant the end of the marriage and the end of family life. At one time, this sort of thing was of the utmost of importance to people.

  14. Oh great. Might as well have spanked the no good gibbering gits and then sent them on their merry way. Or how about sending them to their room with no supper to think about what they’ve done. No wait, that’s child abuse and you could get in big trouble for that. I guess it only counts if the child lives to tell it. Let’s compare it to the fact that if a toothless dog bit someone it would get put down immediately.

  15. As a grandfather anyone who killed one of my granchilds, if turned loose would answer to me. They would die the same way the kids did.

  16. “Heat of Passion” is ONLY supposed to be used in Criminal Law to mitigate murder to voluntary manslaughter and then only when it is in response to adequate provocation and then only if the perp had no reasonable chance to cool off. Any other use of this defense is hubris.

  17. Tie the person naked to a tree in a goat farm. Then if they live put them on death row, then every now and then turn them loose in general population after the community is riled up about the child abusers/killers.
    However I am being too kind but my Christrian background won’t allow me to think that drawing and quartering someone while they are alive, (slowly enough for them to feel the pain, as you use them for an ashtray,)is just punishment for tearing into a child!
    Thank you for this forum!
    Lorraine P. Curran

  18. Take us off you e-mail list. We see enough of this garbage on the news. We do not want it as e-mail. Remove us from your list.

  19. Lets ask the question: “What was accomplished by our justice system in this case? What would prevent these monsters from doing this again?” Many righteous do-gooders claim that putting these maggots to death is murder, as was the crime that they commited, and that 2 wrongs don’t make a right. My perspective takes it a step futher, in that a life (or more) may be saved in the assurance that they wouldn’t be alive to recommit the same crime. Let’s preserve humanity and get them out of the gene pool!!

  20. To adam who said “kill em all”: Why don’t you substantiate your views on overpopulation by killing yourself?? You take up much more space than a child anyway.

  21. Well it was only a woman yer honor.

    A man in the East Bay, northern California, lost his temper with a noisy barn owl in his garden, and shot and injured the hapless bird with his catapult.

    Last week he was fined $10,000 and sentenced to umpteen hours of community service. I suppose sudden passion copmpassion only applies to those who see off birds of the unfeathered variety.

  22. In these last days just prior to the return of Jesus Christ, the mainstream population of earth are insane. This madness has occured as a result of 50-100 years of liberal mind control via the national media, and colleges. the main teaching being that man is an animal, yet is also the subject of the ultimate worship (humanism). Man has become his own god, worshipping and serving the creature more than the creator. (see Romans 2). With man as his own god, he is free to set up any rules he wants, i.e., abortion(murder), extramarital relations (adultery), IRS (theft), and now sudden passion killing (still murder). With no moral rudder to be guided by (no absolutes), we can now make up the rules as we go. Simple. That is now why we have partial birth abortion (murder in the first degree), euthanasia, high school massacres, drug addicts everywhere, UN troops on American soil, sellouts to Red China (Klinton’s treason), and a soon coming police state in America with death camps and torture chambers that will make Hitler’s party look like a boy scout camp. We now live in a socialist death culture, friends. Disarming the citizens is the last step before you see the final and violent end to a nation that kicks God out of its personal and public life. Thats all there is to it. Simple. But even more simple is God’s simple plan of salvation. Its a free gift. “For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9

  23. To kill another man or woman sleeping in your bed with your spouse could actually cause insanity for the mean time. Only persons who have been in that situation might be able to understand. So by all means what he did was absolutely right. However, do not make a habit and kill everyone who upsets you.

    For the woman who kill her child that is outrageous and she deserves to die slowly. The child did not ask to come to this world and people like that do not deserve to have children.

  24. Another example that we have not yet seen the depths to which human-kind will drop when left to its own devices. Murder of another (we won’t argue 1st or 2nd decree here) is the most violent breach of the other’s freedoms (life, liberty, etc.) that only the most stringent discipline (aka punishment) is expected. But least we forget, practitioners of “freedom of speech” receive penalties of over 12 months at a time, so murderers should get punished for 4 months ?? This kind of selective insanity by our modern American society would make our country’s founders puke in their graves, let alone those of us still around that have some shreads of common sense left. When someone’s freedom to live is more readily abandoned than someone’s freedom to be ignorant, life has not only become unside-down, but “bass-ackward”.

  25. I FEEL THAT A MURDER IS A MURDER IS A MURDER. IF IT IS COMMITTED, COMIT THEM TO LIFE.
    IF YOU INJURE A CHILD…I OFTEN WONDER WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE MEN THAT ARE IN PRISON FOR HURTING OR MURDERING A CHILD. I HOPE THEY TAKE REAL GOOD CARE OF THEM IN THERE.
    I ALSO FEEL THAT THIS, STAYING ON DEATH ROW FOR 10+ YEARS IS OUTRAGEOUS. IF YOUR CONVICTED TAKE ‘EM TO THE TABLE AND INJECT THEM RIGHT THERE. I BET THAT WOULD DECREASE CRIME.

  26. This was only a human child killed here. If it were a puppy or a kitten, the killers would have gotten about 2 yrs. in jail and 5000 hours of working in a vet’s to see the kind of pain and horror they put the animal through. Anyone who kills a child should not only spend an indefinite time in jail, but also have to spend time in a medical facility and see what pain and suffering children go through at the hands of animals like them. They should attend the autopsies of tortured children, maybe shown the pictures of the one they’ve just killed. I’ve never seen an animal purposely abuse their offspring and every mother cat, dog whatever will fight to the death to protect her young. These two should be sterilized (they’re poster children for it)along with the other abusing uncle. Did this sentence buy votes for this judge from the trailer park? Sounds like election time.

  27. I agree with Carol Hoffman. Let the punishment be the crime. I would gladly volunteer to “payback” the criminals.

  28. Please unsubscribe me. I tried to unsubscribe, but it’s hard to do when I’m listed as a “cc”. It is embarrassing to have my boss read it over my shoulder.

  29. Biblical predictions of humankind’s corruption aside, the
    fact is that the precedents for this sort of behavior are
    insanity pleas and the like. The logic of this sort of case
    appears to be that if you have a reason to kill somebody,
    it’s okay. Funny — that’s how armies have looked at things
    for centuries.

  30. There is a DISTINCT REASON I use the name “shaken”. I’ve been in a damn wheelchair since 7/14/88. I picked up a hitchhiker in Atlanta. Empathising/comisserating w/the fellow, I drove him 20 mi. out of my way where I ran out of gas.
    Walking w/traffic to my back(8′ high median walls & a gorgeous day)an unliscened Bolivian woman struck me behind my head, throwing me into a bridge abutment. I’ve been unable to walk since.
    She gets a 2 yr. sentence & only serves 3 mos. b/c 1st offence. NO JUSTICE in this country!

  31. I do believe that sudden rage should be taken into consideration. There should definitely be a difference in sentencing between a person who kills in a moment of sudden rage when he sees his wife in bed with another man, and one who plots and plans to kill his wife. I regard the first as unstable, but the second as flat out dangerous. But I don’t want EITHER walking the street.

    This case was not that clear cut though. The man left, and then came back to finish the job. That should have ended the sudden rage defense immediately.

    As far as the killers and torturers of children, there is no prison strong enough and no sentence long enough for them.

  32. Killing is too good for a cheatin’ spouse! They oughta be made to cook and clean for the lover and take care of their kids too, while holding 2 jobs to make child support payments to the jilted husband!

  33. WHOEVER THE HELL DID THAT SH@# NEEDS TO BE KILLED I do not sympathize with anyone who could kill a defenseless child. Why could you do something like that. I hope that in your article you were being ironic. This is appaling and down right evil. Who ever takes another life into their own hands need to be woth the devil face to face. They aren’t God. If you catch your “other” cheating on you dont kill them. Leave them. There are too many people on this earth to fret over something like that.
    As far as BABY killers it is just appalling that a child that you bring into this world could make you so upset that you could KILL them. A defenseless child. What the HELL IS THE MATTER WITH THOSE DOGS, they aren’t human for that. It is not human to kill another CHILD, HOW??

  34. I think that the man who killed his wife after leaving and then coming back so be convicted of murder and spend the rest of his life in prison. There is never an excuse or reason for killing a helpless child. The murderer should be put to death in every instance. Our problem today is that we protect the rights of the criminal and forget the rights of the victim!

  35. First of all I would like to thank all who are commited to publicising stories of this nature, as most times they dont get much if any press.People need to be informed before any change can happen, and so your contribution is vital and does make a difference.I hope that the time has come where people will take a stand and devote theirselves to truth and love.We the people need to ban together and see who is our enemy, for it is not our neighbor,our boss, our co-worker,our family, or the driver next to you on the highway.We are being made to think and assume these are potential violaters of our person, but in reality this is not true in most cases.It’s a diversioon tactic to keep our frustrations aimed away from the real enemy, and it seems to work.So, lets all fight for the Truth and for ourselves as a nation and band together for change for ourselves our children and our neighbors!For if we do not, our nation will be a sad paranoid place.Wake up and join the army of the silent majority, and lets take our country back.I believe thsi is happening and one of the reasons is just what we see on this page, not the terrible stories, but the free press, the internet, the people’s information…I wish you all love and fraternity.

  36. I am told that old English common law said that if a mother killed her own child (under the age of two) it was only a misdemeanor. Maybe they considered post-partum depression, etc. more than moderns do.

    About the man who killed his wife and her lover: years ago, in Texas, I recieved a briefing on Texas law. I was told that if I found my wife with a lover, I should try to shoot them both with the same bullet; Texans regarded that as justice, not murder. Accordingly, the “murderer” was guilty of bad aim, not bad intentions.

  37. I am impressed by the number of respondents who are inherently, violently vengeful. Volunteering to torture child-killers is, i think, a sign of a truly warped conscience. The penalties associated with crime are supposed to protect society, not indulge sadists. I would argue that 20 years imrisonment should be the maximum sentence; it wouold adequately protect others, since there are few violent geriatric criminals.

  38. I believe it is ok to kill an unfaithful partner. A child’s murder is intolerable! They should fry all child killers. Unless they do it for the child…severe sickness, or badly retarded. If it can’t function let it go peacefully.

  39. I have read some of the comments by other readers and I believe you people are psycho! How dare you ever believe you have the right to end your spouse’s life or even a child’s! God happens to be the one who created us…not man! We should not be in charge of life or death. I can relate to seeing a spouse sleeping with another person, but acting in rage and anger is pure ignorance. As far as beating a child, I have a 4 month old angel myself and I would never imagine harming him in anyway. There is nothing he can possibly do at this age to make me ever want to strike him. God tells us to “be like the children”…meaning pure and innocent!!!! Children are a blessing, not a punching bag for anger! Get a life…how tough do you have to be to hurt someone a third of your size? Wake up America…

  40. Just a thought: if you can’t control your emotions, perhaps we should automatically sentence you to death. Only killing a person who can’t control their anger will ensure that I am protected from that rage-filled person.

  41. I can understand how someone could kill their spouse and the person with him/her after finding them in bed together.
    That is a crime of sudden passion. The evidence would tell all.

    But killing a child? That can’t even come close to be called a crime of passion.
    There is no excuse for purposely killing a child. That person or persons should get the chair.

  42. down here in Florida , there is controversy over” old sparky ” the electric chair being too cruel, It caught an inmate’s hair on fire while putting him to death…..oooh aaah, poor thing . when these criminals were rapeing , tortureing , killing dismembering their victims who felt sorry for the defensless victims , the majority of victims were inocent and they were killed in horrific inhumane ways. I try to follow the” turn the other cheek ” deal but sometime doing this , only gives the perpertrator another chance to get away and do more damage, due to this I believe in corpral punishment , I think if the perpertrator knew what kind of sadistic punishment stood before him for a crime of such hostile intent , maybe they would think twice before committing the haneous crime.

  43. For starters, I can’t really express an opinion on what I would do in such a situation if it occurred, but I believe that it should NOT be considered if the individual has already started to drive off, then comes back. Concerning what I think should be done to people that torture and kill a little 2 year old kid, I should begin by saying that my earliest memory was when I was still in the crawling around on the floor age and my ‘loving mother’ made me stick a bobby pin in an electrical outlet. I felt the electricity shooting through my body, and felt my fingers being burnt black. I couldn’t let go, and I heard my ‘loving mother’ laughing. For the rest of my childhood, I was beaten a few times a day starting with yardsticks (until they broke them on me) then belts (my ‘loving parents’ that included 1 mother and 3 ‘dads’ seemed to enjoy hitting me with the buckle end) and finally a 2×4 and an iron
    skillet. After I went to school, the bullies found out that I couldn’t bring myself to fight back, or I’d feel just like the monsters my ‘loving parents’ were, so in sadistic glee, they decided to pound on me as often as they could. Now that you know that, you probably have an teeny tiny idea of how much rage I feel when someone tortures and kills a 2 year old kid. Sentencing.. Hmm.. I’ll be nice. I think they should be sterilized and then put in a place apart from the rest of the population with others like them. (Anybody read ‘Coventry’ by Robert A. Heinlein?) There they will probably prey upon each other. Knowing society, there will more than likely be live broadcasts and pay-per-view specials of the more violent recordings.

  44. I believe in the sudden rage of THE MOMENT, but he lost it after the first few shots. If he was coherent enough to check his ammo and drive a car, then ‘sudden passion’ is lost. As for child killers, that is not sudden passion, that is just plain cruel. I believe that those people should be treated as sex offenders of the worst kind,
    sterilized, and given a long sentence. If there was a death involved, those people should be given the maximum allowable under rewritten, stricter laws. I also do not believe in the death penalty in any form, I find it moraly unacceptable, but I have also found that a nice long prison sentence, especially in the area reserved for sex offenders, can be worse.

  45. I believe that one can have a sudden burst of passion, but I also think that it can be controlled. Just because you find your spouse/lover in bed with another person and have a sudden fit of passion, it does not give you the right to murder one or both of them. As for people who abuse and torture children, they should be sterilized and put away for the maximum allowable time. If they caused the death of the child, I think the death penalty should be invoked. For DAVID ADEZIO: I respect your view on the death penalty, however, I still think it is an incorrect one. I used to go round and round with my cousin on the death penalty. She was against it under ANY circumstances…EVEN, she said, if it was a family member of hers that was murdered. Well, fate would have it that my uncle, her father was murdered in the Oklahoma City bombing. Guess what? She called me crying and said that her view on the death penalty had changed. She wanted the perpetrators to receive the death penalty. They gave her father and many others the death penalty. Why should we support them with our tax dollars in prison for the duration of their pathetic lives? I know some people don’t change their minds when a family member is murdered and tortured by these monsters, but they are few and far between. If it was your child, mother, sister, brother who was murdered in cold blood you might feel differently.

  46. My view on the death penalty is that if you are capable of taking someone elses life with them causing no threat to your own life then you are more than capable of losing yours. So many people get away with murder with a plea of “temorary insanity” that is not right. If you took a life at that time then you should not be able to walk around free and endanger more people. Yes it’s true “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” but we’re talking about a human life. If someone takes a life then they don’t respect theirs enough to keep it.

  47. when you kill someone you have no regard for their life,
    therefore why should a court feel any compassion for that
    person. If this person who kills someone *else* feels that
    a life is worthless enough to snatch away, perhaps they
    feel their own life has the same worth. Yay to the death
    penalty.

  48. I’m responding to the “rage-back” questions which followed the edition about that guy who killed his wife and the wife-stealer.

    1) I think that claiming “sudden passion” in fair game as a defense.
    2) I think that an appropriate sentence for killing an unfaithful spouse should be 5 to10 years, depending on his or her (the murderer’s) prior criminal record.
    3) I think that the sentence for killing one’s own child should be either life in prison or ‘ol sparky depending on how bestial the crime. If it’s a matter of leaving a kid strapped in a car-seat for too long on a hot day, or another instance of gross negligence, maybe no punishment at all; the guilt is enough as it is.

    Hope that I didn’t sound too liberal there, Go Pat Go!!

  49. You should really take a look at the chapter entitled
    “Righteous Slaughter” in Jack Katz’s book “Seductions
    of Crime.” He explains the offender’s feelings during the
    moment of the murder. He explains how their humiliation
    turns to rage. Not that this is an excuse for these crimes,
    I simply believe it is important to look at both sides of a
    crime, no matter who the victim is. Personally, I believe
    these men and women who kill their cheating spouses or
    their children should be subject to the same penalties as
    a murder who takes the life of a stranger. Atleast this
    type of person has no ties to their victim. It almost seems
    worse to take your vengeance out on one you love,
    doesn’t it?

  50. This is in response to the rant at the defence of sudden
    loss of control. First of all, as a law student, I have to say
    that the author sadly simplified his or her explanation of
    the so called “crime of passion.” It does not give you a
    carte blance to go “Bang Bang” when your boss annoys
    you. I really can’t be bothered to explain the intricacies of
    the defence, but take it from me, you are wrong.
    Second of all, and more importantly, had you noticed
    where all these cases are from? Yep you have guessed it.
    Southern states where the death penalty is rife.
    Are you surprised that the courts found a loophole to get
    the defendant a life sentence rather than an execution?
    The death penalty always leads to absurd results (not
    least state sanctioned murder, but that’s another story.)
    Well actually, considering how barbaric the Americans
    are when it comes to all matters electric chair related, I
    suppose it is quite a surprise.

  51. Regarding the comment below from Greg, how about the death penalty for patronizing prick British law students who, like most Europeans, are totally clueless regarding American society.

  52. I do feel that sudden passion should be taken into consideration, but it should only result in a slight reduction of the penalty. A death sentence could be changed to life in prison, for example.

  53. At some point we need to make the judges responsible for such crazy outcomes & verdicts.
    No longer do the punishments fit the crimes. An eye for an eye would make people think twice.

  54. booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

  55. “Should sudden passions be taken into account when criminals are sentenced?” No. Within our system and view of justice, the only justification for the use of force is in response to the initiation of force against one, in other words self-defense. We all experience provocation as a normal part of life in a complex and diverse society. Those of us who are civilized do not allow ourselves to be so provoked into committing acts of violence. The reason for acting violently, except in self-defense, is irrelevant.

    “What is the appropriate sentence for a man or woman who kills an unfaithful spouse?” The sentence should be no different from that of any other murderer.

    “What should the sentence be for someone who kills their own child?” Although this crime is one I personally find particularly monstrous, the sentence should be no different from that of any other murderer.

    Since others here have addressed the death penalty, so will I. Murder, and the use of the death penaly for convicted murderers, are fundamentally different from other crimes and punishments in that there is no possibility of restitution. You cannot undo death. My preference in punishment for other crimes centers on making restitution to the victim of the crime, but this is not possible when the victim no longer lives. In this special case, the murderer has forfeited his right to live and I see no moral prohibition to putting the criminal to death.

    That being said, the same applies to the death penalty as applies to the murder that precipitated it: there is no possibility of restitution in cases of erroneous conviction. Because of the inherent fallibility of people and their institutions, I oppose the death penalty as currently instituted on the utilitarian grounds that I cannot conceive of a system of justice so perfect that no innocent will ever be executed.

    If the death penalty is to be used at all, there must be different, more stringent requirements of proof of guilt, and the accused must acknowledge guilt. If you think that this means that there would be few or no successful applications of the death penalty under these rules, you are quite right. I honestly do not know if it is worth the effort to try to formulate such rules. My preference, based on practical considerations as well as moral and ethical principles, would be for those convicted of capital offenses to be jailed for life in an unpleasant (but not cruel) environment.

  56. This is for G.A. (alemquer@hotmail.com). Your comments are articulate and make sense to me….that is until you wimper out at the end in regards to the death penalty. Have you read statistics on how many “mistakes” are made in modern times in implementing the death penalty? I suggest you look it up. So few it is amazing. Liberals who bleed for the criminal and forget the helpless victims want you to believe their bloated and dishonest reports of innocent slaughter. What’s more, of the innocent who are killed, many of them were only innocent of the crime they received the death penalty for, but were in fact guilty of numerous violent and horrible crimes against society. In other words, they were a cancer and a burden on our people destined to perpetrate again and again. Read the story of Caryl Chessman. Why would we want to spend endless tax dollars to house these criminals who have murdered women children and men and left countless other grieving victims in their wake? We could not afford to do it, especially with the ACLU crying and moaning for the poor itty bitty cwiminal in the big bad jail and how he’s not being tweated with dignity! You seem intelligent and open to other’s opinions. Please rethink your position…..vote the right way and do the right thing.

  57. Yes. Michigan and many other states have had a long standing ‘irresistable impulse’ defence. There are those situations that drive a normally reasonable person into a homicidal rage. This rage can be cold and of long duration, but the key aspect is that the person’s normal inhibitions against murder or grave bodily harm are short circuited. Finding your wife in bed with someone else was one of the traditional triggers (see ‘In Cold Blood’). Heaven help the person I catch raping my wife or child.

  58. It doesn’t matter if you were under-the-influence, acting
    out in a drunken rage, or acting out in “sudden passion”
    crime is crime, murder is murder. I’m outraged to read
    a person got off with three years for KILLING a child! If
    you ask me I think they should fry the b*stard! The
    best thing for that mother to do would be to give that baby
    up if the government doesn’t take it first.

  59. These people should be forced to endure punishment and/or death in the same manner as which they committed these acts. The idea that these people are allowed to continue to have children is absurd. People who act like these people do should be permanently removed from society.

  60. Sudden passion, what a joke. If that’s going to be the standard, no one will be held accountable for their actions.

  61. Anyone who kills their own child should be killed in the very same way, (by a group of drug dealers, of course. They’re the most likely candidates for wanting this source of work.)

  62. I just wanted to say that these are horrible crimes. to kill a person blows my mind, but somone mentioned that the death penalty should be brought in and that the amount of mistakes in the last decade were very few. well, i suppose just because you are in jail for a crime you didn’t commit you should die anyway, just because you are thought to be guilty,maybe it’s just me, but i thought that everyone’s life is worth THE SAME

  63. To Samantha:
    I thought I made it clear that my sympathy is reserved entirely for those who have been convicted IN ERROR – innocent people, in other words. Murderers, when there is ZERO doubt about their guilt, have forfeited their right to life and should be executed. Unfortunately, there have been too many cases in the news over the past year (the ones I read about were in Illinois IIRC) where modern DNA technology not available at the time of the original trials was used to re-examine evidence that subsequently clearly showed that THE WRONG PEOPLE WERE SENTENCED TO DEATH. It is not because of any desire to let truly bad people off the hook that I have concluded that extraordinary standards of evidence are needed in order to impose the death penalty.

    Is that better?

  64. The man that shot his wife had no choice! If he had simpley thrown her and loverboy out, she would have filed for a devorce, and the judge would have taken everything the boy had, and turned it over to the bitch! Now he’s still got his goods, and justice was served!

    The woman who was screwing another man in her husbands bed deserved
    what she got–and so did her paramour. Justice was up to the wronged
    husband–and since he killed the adulterous pair, it was his right to do so
    and no one should complain.

    The parents who killed their child should be sterilized so they cant pollute
    the gene pool any further.

    I don’t understand. You posted an outraged story about a man who came home to find wis wife in bed with another man. The poor guy killed the guy and then his wife in a rage. Why are you outraged? Should his life have been ruined any more than it already was by sending him to jail for life? I think he received the correct sentence. Do you think its ok for a spouse to screw someone else while married, and in the family home yet? Get with it. The unfaithful wife and her lover were playing with fire, and they got burned. Too bad, but don’t ruin the poor guy who has already been devastated.

  65. Stop trying to make like these are bad people you haven’t said if they’re homosexual or native or any of the real important things the law has to take into account to make a just decision.

    Perhaps the man should have thought about what he did before he tripped out…But what many readers are not taking into account is what can happen when someone is just forced to slip over the edge so quickly….What a horrible thing to walk in on, but if he had just attaked them he probably would have gotten more time…She should have screwed him somewhere else…can you say..

  66. ANYONE who takes anothers life, unless it’s accidental, should pay by losing his life. There are too many people out in the world that don’t feel they should be responsible for their own acts. There are many excuses that are made by them and by the legal system. The fact remains, if you take a life, you should realize your life will be taken. That takes care of repeat offenders!! Our system really sucks!!

  67. I believe the “sudden passion” clause should often be used in our nation’s courts. However it should function as the “crimes involving drugs” clause does, increasing sentences not commuting them. If someone’s grip on reality is so threadbare that they lose touch every time the road gets a little bumpy I want them behind bars. The last thing I want is to accidentally cut off mister “fragile self-image” with my shopping cart at the Safeway and wind up face-down on the floor with a can of Campbell’s imbedded in the back of my skull. Law is mankind’s predator; it thins the heard and makes survival a possibility for the rest of the Saibu. The police are missing a huge demographic concentrating their profiling by racial characteristics. Have you seen the TV show Cops? Either they keep picking on the same family or these people aren’t that hard to spot. I say we send the swat team into every trailer park in America. If the dog’s barking, the baby’s crying, and neither parent is wearing shoes or socks, the police beat the crap out of the guy with no shirt on and drag him to jail, let the courts figure it out. Oh wait, that’s where this whole thing got started, isn’t it.

  68. If a spouse decides to commit adultery, the cheating spouse and partner in crime get what they deserve if they are caught. If this law was enforced more often, maybe some marriages would not fail. More people would consider marriage as important and not abuse it.
    I don’t think the guy should spend one day in jail!!!

  69. “Sudden passion” is a cop out. There is no defense to killing another person except self defense or accident. These “individuals” should be hanging at the end of a rope, not walking the streets.

  70. I am completely dicusted by the fact that there are people
    in this world that would hurt or kill an innocent child. What
    repulses me even more is the fact that the “wonderful”
    court system we have lets these inhuman creatures back
    into society to possibly produce more innocent children to
    kill at their whim. Maybe after a few kids a piece we might
    actually decide to do something to them, but not a second
    before. These “creatures” should be tortured in the same
    manner that they inflicted on these helpless kids. It blows
    my mind how anyone could look into a child”s eyes and
    still be able to do such hideous things. I hope our courts
    decide on day to re-think the punishments that they have
    decided are so fitting, and think what they would want
    done if a monsterous act like the ones we see everyday
    was done to one of their beautiful children.

  71. Off the hook for a “Crime of Passion?” Hmmmmmm, I wonder if that will give Hillary any ideas…..

    As to the child abusers, they are lower than pond scum. The prosecutor on this case should be tried for official misconduct and disbarred.

    Rapists are castrated. The same fate should await child abusers/murderers – and the females should be subjected to court ordered sterilization. To allow these people to be free to reproduce again is an appalling miscarriage of justice.

  72. In my opinion, self defense should be the only reason we should be allowed to kill someone.(excluding war of course) I am so fed up with todays liberal society I cant stand it. Criminals have more rights than the law abiding every day Joe Blow on the street, Taxes and Social Security are a joke, I spent 22 years in the U.S. NAVY with the understanding that I would have medical for life, what a joke. I pay one hell of a lot more than the people on walefare who havent contributited anything to society as far a I can tell. The old system of you get what you earn no longer applies in this country anymore. Were in deep trouble when the people can vote themselves all the freebies they want and not work a lick to earn it. I could go on for ever but the more I wright the madder I get. By for now.

  73. I was outraged at reading the “Sudden Passions”, but found myself even more outraged at the amazingly ridiculous comments of others. The problem of society lies with these ingrates who believe it is OK to kill someone just because YOU feel that the OTHER needs to die. I can not believe what I read!!!!! It is so thoroughly disgusting and disturbing to me — so I will take this time to personally thank of all you (I could put all your names down but would rather puke) for personally being the reason that this violence perpetuates itself. It is because of that ignorance that this continues to happen. So each time that a child or adult is murdered by someone – especially a parent or spouse – treat yourself to a swift kick in the ass, look in the mirror and say “Damn am I a horrible person”. Every 18 seconds a woman is killed by her husband, do you do a little dance every 18 seconds, “killers”? May I pray that NONE of you are teachers, parents or caretakers!!!!!!

  74. We live in a sick, sick world!!! When parents can get away with abusing little infants something needs to change! Here in Florida, the courts seem to be hung up on the concept of “Reunification of the Family”. “Family” meaning mother, father & child(ren), regardless of the fact that mom & dad maybe neglecting or abusing the kids. The judges are notorious for ignoring the recommendations of the Department of Children and Families, and returning kids to homes that are clearly unsafe.

  75. I’m sending this e-mail from
    England, where a man has just been sentence to six years for beating his wife to death with a hammer, her crime? she nagged him, he was made out to be the victim and his dead wife as the criminal.As for the man who shotdead his wife and his wife’s lover, i’m sorry but the guy is a murderer, he shot them left the house then came back to finish the job, he should of got life.Isn’t life cheap.

  76. We always have a choice to either act in anger or to try to calm ourselves before we ack

    I don’t think any less of a standard should be applied in so called Crimes of Passion.

    Murder is murder. Taking a life no matter who, is despicable.Self defense may be an exception.Child abuse/murder- lock em’ up and throw away the key.Same for wife beating. On second thought just jail is too good for them. I’d have something extra “special” for those folks. Not repeatable here.

  77. In both instances, I believe they should have been charged with Murder.
    Whether 1st degree applies, I am not sure, but they should
    at least get life in the electric chair.

  78. I can’t believe there is even any question as to whether these people were punished enough. They took someones life!!! Has this country gotten so screwed up that we can get away with killing someone because of a mood swing???? The man who killed his wife committed a crime of passion, but it’s still a crime. The people who killed the baby are just plain sick!!!! The best way to take care of that is good old fashioned vigilante justice. Let someone take these demented individuals (for lack of better languauge) and kick the crap out of them until they die!!! It would serve the S.O.B.s right!!!!!!!

  79. As far as the wife killer goes I was able to learn more about the case simply by virtue of the fact that I live in Texas and media coverage was somewhat extensive localy.
    If I had been him I would probably done the same,
    with one noteable exception. I would have requested ,
    and expected a death sentence. Killing is wrong, in war , in abortion ,
    to children and in some cases self defense. As far as
    those dispicable animals that killed thier own child ,
    I can’t believe that they haven’t all been lined up against a
    brick wall , given a smoke and been summarily executed.

  80. Darned if I know why the prosecutor in the child’s case let the killers cop a plea. Talk about dropping the ball.

    As for the crime-of-passion case, this is the place you wind up at when you try to add aggravating or mitigating circumstances to a murder case, especially when sentencing time comes. While I don’t believe in the exact same punishment for all murders, if the man who killed his wife in a fit of passion is truly repentant, let him work out his penance in prison rather than having it decided beforehand in the courts.

  81. I truly believe that to take another person’s life is to take
    your own. A person who kills for any other reason than
    self-defense, or defense of another, is committing murder.

    Therein, you should understand I DO believe not only in
    the death penalty… but also the immediate use thereof.
    In short, you kill another. . . you die. NO second chance,
    no political or legal bullet proof vest (per se). The only
    reprieve the murderer may receive is the moments it
    takes to reload, if the first bullet failed.

    There is more, but I will wait until my book is published
    before I can disclose further.

  82. Yup it shore sounds like another case of HATE CRIME to me. Seems to me, that i recall another bunch of children down Texas way that were tortured and murdered by a group of evil out of control adults. It seems to me thier last name was davidson, or davidon, no wait ,it was DAVIDIAN.

  83. I read the stories and was SHOCKED MORTIFIED
    who would kill their own child.i have been browsing
    through randomly reading respose letters. Has anybody
    ever stopped and thought about the fact that these people
    were judged by their peers ?????? Ordinary people
    like you and me?????? Sadly this is what we
    have become. I dont understand what would go on in
    the mind of an ordinary person to allow such a lienient
    punishment. IM SPEECHLESS this makes no sense.

  84. I find the mewling, puking compassion shown these
    sub-human beings that inflicted the torture and death of
    this child unacceptable. These people should have the
    same fate inflicted upon them that they subjected this
    defenseless child to.
    People who are against the death penalty fail to
    understand that individuals that commit these type of
    crimes are like a rabid animal and have to be eliminated
    to purge society of the menace.

  85. are this stories real? i find some of them hard to believe but i know they happen. where did you get your sources from?i think it’s cool u have this website but please don’t missinform people. please email me back.

  86. I guess I view all homicides in black/white – no gray. Passion should not be a consideration. The murder of an unfaithful spouse should be treated as any other murder. The murderer of a child should get the death penalty

  87. If someone kills someone out of jealousy, revenge, insanity or any type of anger they do not deserve to be on this earth with other humans. Personally I believe they should suffer the same death as their victim(s). However, if someone threatens my life, I see no problem with defending myself as I see fit.

  88. I feel, if someone murders anyone, they should suffer EXACTLY the same death. This crap about cruel and inhuman treatment of these animals is a pukiedoo, whine ass, cop out. If<say the guy who sodimised three little boys, then strangled them to death>, they were punished in exactly the same mannor<say, violated with a ball bat, strangled<<<almost>>> to death ummm twice, then on the third time let it die, dismember it and scatter the parts all over> well now that would be sort of justice, as he has already lived a good twenty years longer than any of those little boys will get to, there is no way to take the years. If we were to start making the punishment FIT the crime, I think all this perverse dememted sick behavior would all but stop <these animals invaribly wimper”don’t hurt me”>.
    I say,make justice just. Hard labor, stop all the steak, and cable tv, stop all the dental care, stop all the petting the animals, and punish them. They have everything except the freedom to move around as they wish.
    I have to work with inmates, and they have more rights than I do, just let one feel sick, or too cold, or too hot, or what ever, the job is shut down, and someone comes over 100 miles to take them in to the Dr. HA, let me try that.
    OK, ok, I’ll get down off my little red band waggon now, Love the information you are letting the people really KNOW what is really out there.

  89. Oh btw, if I catch my companion cheating, I’m going to pack my glad rags, and haul asp. That is the resonable option <that it seems no one wants to take>.
    Divorce, not devorce<or however it was>, so the boy could keep his stuff? LOL, well I’m glad I found something to smile about. I hope they make him into there favorite dolly at the big house.
    I was married to an abuser, lets see, I couldn’t get MY money out of my pocket fast enough<MY money>, so he could go buy his boose, and or dope, I would like to interject here that that moron in seven years, didn’t work six months. Or I didn’t go fix his plate fast enough, or I took too long to take a bath, it was always something, but I was gonna get beat up, he’d find something.
    Now at any time I look to see hs name in the news, that he has killed some woman he waws with <poor creture who ever she is>.
    Violent, cruel, hateful, mean people, are just that! They will always find an excuse to hurt someone. Hummm, never saw him fight a man though, women, children, elderly, yep he was a real man!
    This was dedicated to the shallow, probably just like a multitude of other small minded ignorant redneck good ole boys, that think a wife is property, and thus no longer a person.
    I hope he rots in jail.

  90. Kill a spouse or lover, or anyone for that matter=death penalty, nothing less.
    Kill a child, even your own, you should be drawn and quartered then put to death. No burial, cremated in public.

  91. i am living in australia and of iranian background. in my homeland eye for an eye is law. this has its merits and its negatives. crime is low, very LOW. none of this crap about wife beating, child beating, murder or rape. firearms are near impossible to get your hands on. BUT the government also kills political prisoners in the same vain. its hard to balance the 2 in law but i definately think that some laws are very abused in countries like US and Australia.

  92. No Crimes of passion should not be any less punishable than premeditated crimes, and people like that should breed.

  93. crimes of passion shouldn’t be any less punishable than premeditated crimes they should all get the chair to disperse with thier end of the gene pool. (sorry about the last one I can’t type 🙂

  94. I am following a current domestic killing that occurred several weeks in Largo, Florida. A Woman that was married to an Assistant Pastor in their church admitted to her of the affair. The UNDERSTANDEDLY distraught Wife stabbed him with a large knife in the groin and he died from loss of blood.
    Originally charged with First Degree Murder, these charges have been downgraded to possible misdemeaners by now.

    Go figure about equality in spousal abuse cases. No Man should ever lift a finger to a Woman but, neither should a Woman raise her hand to her man.

  95. Hi Y’all! Found this subject about Death and it’s juducial suggestions to be rather interesting. I wanted to take this subject one step further:

    What type of category do combat militar veterans fall into? How about Police officers that kill within the line of duty. Are they accountable as “killers”? Just wondering!

  96. I think Texas has had the “unwritten law” defense for a very long time, giving a cheated spouse a hunting license.

  97. I think they should serve life in jail killing a baby for no reason it all.
    That’s no fair the baby to die. I just hate those Bitches do much!
    I just think they should die them selves. And people shouldn’t kill
    people they cheated on them!

  98. One thing is for sure..She want screw around anymore. I guess it’s like toyota says,,,you ask for it,,you got,,oh what a feeling. I guess he should have divorced her in court where he could pay ali-money for her to ride up and down the road hunting other studs…NOT!!

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